smokes in dwelling

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iwire said:
Found it.
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no argument regarding the FD having operational responibility for the function of fire alarm systems annd for that case single and or multi-staion smokes.

but the inspectional responsibility or the circuit installation is upon the municipal wiring inspector.

are telling me that you do not pull a wiring permit for systems and smoke detectors???
 
cpal said:
are telling me that you do not pull a wiring permit for systems and smoke detectors???
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Yes, at the fire station that is also where we usually send the prints for approval.

I can not remember any municipal wire inspector show any interest in my fire alarm work.
 
M. D. said:
Now they don't come out to mark them and there is no rough inspection for the installation of smoke detection. ?
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I disagree the inspection of the installtion is under the responsibility of the municpal inspector of wires.see 166.32A

M. D. said:
There is also no reason for the inspector of wires to fail the work I performed there is nothing in the electrical code that requires smoke detection. If I do install them and do it improperly then the inspector of wires can site me on the infraction. Who knows maybe the H.O. or G.C. has a pal in the alarm buisness?
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I agree the inspector of wires does not have positional authority regarding the placement, and number of detectors. That comes under the control of the building inspector (BBRS) and the operational certification is refered to the local Fire Chief.

But the installation of the wiring is inspected by the wiring inspector.
 
cpal said:
But the installation of the wiring is inspected by the wiring inspector.
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Charlie I am not trying to be argumentative but when was the last time you installed a fire alarm system?

I have been doing them for about 20 years in MA and RI and have not found the wiring inspector to have anything to do with the FA systems regardless of the written rules.
 
Chapter 143: Section 3L. Regulations relative to electrical wiring and fixtures; notice of electrical installation


Section 3L. The board of fire prevention regulations shall make and promulgate, and from time to time may alter, amend and repeal, rules and regulations relative to the installation, repair and maintenance of electrical wiring and electrical fixtures used for light, heat and power purposes in buildings and structures subject to the provisions of sections three to sixty, inclusive, and the state building code. Such regulations shall be in accordance with generally accepted standards of engineering practice, and shall be designed to provide reasonable uniform requirements of safety in relation to life, fire and explosion.


I see this as pretty direct info???


No person shall install for hire any electrical wiring or fixtures subject to this section without first or within five days after commencing the work giving notice to the inspector of wires appointed pursuant to the provisions of section thirty-two of chapter one hundred and sixty-six. Said notice shall be given by mailing or delivering a permit application form prepared by the board, to said inspector. Any person failing to give such notice shall be punished by a fine not exceeding five hundred dollars. This section shall be enforced by the inspector of wires within his jurisdiction and the state examiners of electricians.

Any person installing for hire electrical wiring or fixtures subject to this section shall

"notify the inspector of wires in writing upon the completion of the work".

The inspector of wires shall, within five days of such notification, give written notice of his approval or disapproval of said work. A notice of disapproval shall contain specifications of the part of the work disapproved, together with a reference to the rule or regulation of the board of fire prevention regulations which has been violated.




Chapter 166: Section 32. Municipal inspector of wires; appointment; qualifications; powers and duties; liability for removal of wires


Section 32. A city or town shall, by ordinance, vote or by-law, appoint an inspector of wires. Said inspector shall be a licensed electrician. Two or more cities or towns may vote to form a district and shall appoint an inspector of wires, whose compensation shall be fixed by the district and paid for by each city and town comprising such district as the city and town members thereof shall determine and who shall have the same powers and duties of an inspector of a city or town.

Such inspector shall supervise every wire over or under streets or buildings in such a city, town or district and every wire within or supplied from buildings and structures subject to the provisions of chapter one hundred and forty-three, and the state building code, except wires within a manufactured building or building component as defined in the state building code and inspected in accordance with rules and regulations promulgated by the building code commission; shall notify the person owning or operating any such wire whenever its attachments, insulation, supports or appliances are improper or unsafe, or whenever the tags or marks thereof are insufficient or illegible; shall, at the expense of the city or town, remove every wire not tagged or marked as hereinbefore required, and shall see that all laws and regulations relative to wires are strictly enforced. A city, town or district may recover in contract from the owner of any such wire so removed the expense which it has incurred for the removal thereof.



I may be wrong but if I am I know I'm not alone
 
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Well Charlie all I can tell you is it's a real world out there.

I think if I did not go through the FD for my permits and inspections Randy in Framingham might have me arrested.

It's not like I or the company I work for have only done one or two systems, the company has done literally 100s of systems.

I don't pull the permits, the office does, perhaps the FA work is noted on the permit from the EI but I have never seen an EI inspect any of our FA work.

And that is not because the EI was not on the job, they are out for the power wiring and leave the FA system to the FD.

I have had the Raynam FD inspector ask me about every installation aspect of my work, I have had Providence FD inspectors bust my chops about the proximity of outgoing raceways with incoming raceways.

It will be the FD inspectors that remind me to use steel compression fittings on EMT runs.

But never a so much as a peep about FA systems from electrical inspectors.
 
cpal said:
But the installation of the wiring is inspected by the wiring inspector.
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Like I said if I am hired to install muti. station smoke alarms on branch circuit wiring , then yes that branch circuit wiring is subject to the to the inspector of wires . I am expected to pull permits for the installation of the branch circuit wiring , regardless of what the wiring serves. The inspector of wires can't fail my wiring if it is not there to fail , and there is more than one reason as to why branch circuit wiring is not providing outlets for alarms.

As for those systems covered in 760 it has been a while since I have installed any , the last time I did I don't think the inspector of wires gave it much attention , the fire officials did though. I would guess a permit is required, at the very least for the branch circuit wiring feeding the panel.
 
M. D. said:
Like I said if I am hired to install muti. station smoke alarms on branch circuit wiring , then yes that branch circuit wiring is subject to the to the inspector of wires . .
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I agree!

M. D. said:
As for those systems covered in 760 it has been a while since I have installed any , the last time I did I don't think the inspector of wires gave it much attention , the fire officials did though. I would guess a permit is required, at the very least for the branch circuit wiring feeding the panel.
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We all know that in MA, you must be licensed to install a FA System. C-D License.

Of course the source feed is required to be inspected.
But the system it self is under the oversight of Chp 143-3L, Ch. 141, and 166.32.

If some municipal inspectors are passing this to the FD so be it!!

That is not my argument. (there are many things that happen which are in conflict with state laws. you can read my previous post we all seem to be fairly literate. You do not need to agree with my interpertation or the sections I posted.

IMO systems and their installations as defined in Ch141 require a permit (as we know it) and an inspection, by these laws and CMR's.

I didn't write them I'm just reading them.
 
Charlie you seem to be wound up and I not sure why.

I have not once disagreed with the sections you posted or stated that municipal electrical inspectors could not inspect FA work.

All I have done is pointed out the reality of the situation, they do not.
 
I have worked for three Municipalities. I have inspected FA on rough ins as far as emt on risers, exposed risers compression fittings, location of devices, proper connectors....that is it...Bob, you are correct..."Real world" the rest is up to the "IFC Certified" individual.
 
iwire said:
Charlie you seem to be wound up and I not sure why.

I have not once disagreed with the sections you posted or stated that municipal electrical inspectors could not inspect FA work.

All I have done is pointed out the reality of the situation, they do not.
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My apologies I do not mean to present emotion one way or the other.


I understand that your argument, but I can assure you that in some towns in MA permits are filed for FA with the inspector of wires and said inspections are conducted, the operation of the system after installation falls on the FD

thanks for the inquiry


I'm happy and hope I haven't cranked anyone else up
 
I have installed several Fire Alarm Systems. The only place I have been told I have to have a FA lic is in Boston. Everywhere else my elect lic covers me. Other than Boston the only other place I have ever had any problems is Framingham........No CLASS B. And I use to work for a company in Framingham.
 
Was researching posts on smoke detectors, and found this one. A post that was something that georgestoltz posted (see 4th post on frist page) has me wondering how to deal with one of the requirements.

"No closer than 3' to any cold air return or supply, or ceiling fan"

Most bedrooms in your more average size house - you put paddle fans up - how do you meet this requirement? I'm assuming this is 3' from the edge of the blades.

Thanks,

Brett
 
SDs Building Code Requirement

SDs Building Code Requirement

mark henderson said:
Raider I just looked in the 2007 NFPA72 and that line no reads
From NFPA 72 11.5.1.1(2)
Ooutside of each seprate dwelling unit sleeping area, within 6.4m (21ft) of any door to a sleeping room, the distance measured along a path of travel.

Mark

PS. sorry about the whole quote thing I wont get so happy with that from now on.
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The smoke detector requirements in a dwelling is usually required by the building code, in our case in NC by the IBC. NFPA-72 is a standard not a code although usually referenced by state codes which would make it mandatory.

Basic requirements are one in the bedroom and one outside each bedroom area.

Jim yancey-NCDOI
Engineering, Code Consultant
 
bjp_ne_elec said:
Most bedrooms in your more average size house - you put paddle fans up - how do you meet this requirement? I'm assuming this is 3' from the edge of the blades.
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Generally, right in front of the door to the bedroom is a good spot. It's generally at least five feet from the center of the fan - 24" blades are pretty standard. :)

Tim Reidy said:
Are arc fault breakers required by NEC??
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For smokes in a bedroom? Yes. A smoke detector is installed at an outlet. (Local amendments notwithstanding.)
 
NM Cable and Smokes

NM Cable and Smokes

Most contractors around here run 14/3 for their smokes and are serving these smokes from the bedroom circuits. These bedroom circuits are on a 20amp AFCI. According to the NEC, 14 AWG must be on a 15 amp disconnect. Is this correct?
 
14/3 smokes

14/3 smokes

comjos, yes, that would be a violation
 
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