Snap switches for Multiwire Branch Circuits

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brother

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Looks like a new thing going on since the Multi wire circuits have to have a common 'handle tie' on the breakers. Some folks seem to be installing snap switches right after the panel and then going to the loads. Seems like just more work to me, but I suppose it lets a person work on the multi ciruit without haveing to turn the others off and still be in compliance with the new 2008 NEC. what do you think?? Have you seen this yet??
 
roger

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brother said:
Looks like a new thing going on since the Multi wire circuits have to have a common 'handle tie' on the breakers. Some folks seem to be installing snap switches right after the panel and then going to the loads. Seems like just more work to me, but I suppose it lets a person work on the multi ciruit without haveing to turn the others off and still be in compliance with the new 2008 NEC. what do you think?? Have you seen this yet??
Click to expand...

I had the same idea when this first went into effect, (probably could find it in some older threads) I think it's a great idea.

Roger
 
480sparky

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I don't get it. What's the advantage?
mw_hmmm.gif
 
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RonPecinaJr

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brother said:
Looks like a new thing going on since the Multi wire circuits have to have a common 'handle tie' on the breakers. Some folks seem to be installing snap switches right after the panel and then going to the loads. Seems like just more work to me, but I suppose it lets a person work on the multi ciruit without haveing to turn the others off and still be in compliance with the new 2008 NEC. what do you think?? Have you seen this yet??
Click to expand...


Have not seen it yet and I still don't understand the advantage of it.
 
Dennis Alwon

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Well I think you all are playing with fire doing that. You are defeating the intent of the new code-- I bet they will re-word the code by 2014 to exclude switches being used in this fashion.

I am no lawyer but if someone gets hurt I wouldn't want that liability.
 
Buck Parrish

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brother said:
just turn off the 'snap' switch for the circuit you are working on, and leave the others on. No need to turn off an entire area of lights etc.. when one circuit needs work.
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This wouldn't matter at all. The multi wire circuit is sharing a neutral. That neutral will get you. That IMO is the intent of the code.
So the snap switch would not be rellavent.
 
Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

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Dennis Alwon said:
Well I think you all are playing with fire doing that. You are defeating the intent of the new code-- I bet they will re-word the code by 2014 to exclude switches being used in this fashion.

I am no lawyer but if someone gets hurt I wouldn't want that liability.
Click to expand...

ITS our job to defeat them. Let them think this out as to why we did it. Gosh them boys are smart
 
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brother

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Buck Parrish said:
This wouldn't matter at all. The multi wire circuit is sharing a neutral. That neutral will get you. That IMO is the intent of the code.
So the snap switch would not be rellavent.
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I understand the intent of the Cmp. I think you still missed the point I was bringin out. Instead of having to turn off 3 circuits just to work on the one, you just turn off power to the one. To be honest, I think the guys who are doing this, already understand and take the proper precautions of to not get shocked off the neutral/white wire.
 
Cavie

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Sorry fellas. The code says handle ties on MWBC period. No exceptions for added switches. Don't look for any changes in 2014. The purpose is no current on the neutral. The switch will not prevent this.
 
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RonPecinaJr

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Plus you'll still have inexperienced guys burning up flat screen televisions or other expensive equipment. It's amazing to me how people will think of shortcuts to deliberately get around a code, with complete disregard for safety. I worked for a guy like that once. :roll:
 
480sparky

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Also makes me wonder how many people will turn those switches off, not knowing what they do, just to see what they control.

Flip this switch.... nothing happens. (Ooops. They just shut down the entire computer division up on the 2nd floor. Hmmm. Betcha the Operations Department aint' gonna be happy.)

Let's try this one. Interesting. Still nothing Hmmm. (Now everyone in the restrooms are in the dark.)

How about this one? Nothing? Oh well, they must not do anything. Just leave 'em off, Jerry!














































(Oh, that last one was for the fire alarm.)
 
iaov

iaov

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Cavie said:
Sorry fellas. The code says handle ties on MWBC period. No exceptions for added switches. Don't look for any changes in 2014. The purpose is no current on the neutral. The switch will not prevent this.
Click to expand...
I don't think the purpose was no current in the neutral. The purpose was no boxes/receptacles with with multiple sources. I see switches used in factories now to control individual lighting branches. I don't see the big deal about putting a switch in. The ones I've seen are labeled. If you're worried about multi sources in the box, put the switches in seperate boxes. The other point I would make is the stuff we have been talking about is not likely to be worked on by Joe Hack HO.
 
Cavie

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iaov said:
. The other point I would make is the stuff we have been talking about is not likely to be worked on by Joe Hack HO.
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Joe Hack HO is exactly who this is aimed at. Also Joe Hack Maintenance guy. It is not a matter of having more that one circuit in a box. That is very much legal.
 
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brother

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480sparky said:
Also makes me wonder how many people will turn those switches off, not knowing what they do, just to see what they control.

Flip this switch.... nothing happens. (Ooops. They just shut down the entire computer division up on the 2nd floor. Hmmm. Betcha the Operations Department aint' gonna be happy.)

Let's try this one. Interesting. Still nothing Hmmm. (Now everyone in the restrooms are in the dark.)

How about this one? Nothing? Oh well, they must not do anything. Just leave 'em off, Jerry!














































(Oh, that last one was for the fire alarm.)
Click to expand...
I will say that this new practice of installing the switches each one was labled clearly, and one could easily see what it controled. Ive seen where they put these snap switches just above the new FIRE ALARM panel. Yes it was labled and YES they had locked it on.

I just think its extra work, but I dont see a 'code' violation. As far as someone 'getting hurt' on the neutral because they just shut off the the one switch, this just goes back to be 'properly' trained and qualified to work on the system. Even though I dont like shared neutrals myself, I still have to say that most of the guys/people that got hurt on them were either distracted, or just didnt know how to check them.
 
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