Snap together aboveground pools...exempt?

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680.30 General.
Electrical installations at storable pools, storable spas, or storable hot tubs shall comply with the provisions of Part I and Part III of this article.

Unless I read the OP's question wrong, ( and that's possible with that small screen on Tapachatchucka...I forgot what that chat app was called already:sick:.
Storable Swimming, Wading, or Immersion Pools; or Storable/Portable Spas and Hot Tubs.
Those that are constructed on or above the ground and are capable of holding water to a maximum depth of (42 in), or a pool, spa, or hot tub with nonmetallic, molded polymeric walls or inflatable fabric walls regardless of dimensions.



















 
iwire said:
Metal frame but soft sides.

It could be 75' in diameter but if it holds less than 42" of water it can be a storable pool.

I have a 15' diameter one.
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MasterTheNEC said:
ahh...see told you it was confusing. Regardless the diameter is pointless. The depth of the storage pool shown in the origional OP post has a depth less than 48" so defer to 680 Part I and III.

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Let's try this again...

RLyons said:


680 says pool holding 42" of water or less, correct?

Manufacturer spec says 52" wall with 90% max fill capacity. This would be around 46" of water?
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mgookin said:
How is a 24' diameter steel pool "storable"?

That is a permanent pool.
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If my math on the fill capacity is correct and I am to treat it as permanent...
- How do I bond the plastic motor and the water if skimmer won't accept bonding plate and hoses won't connect to a PVC tee to allow the 1" thread in bond?


Looking back at my original post I can see how it came off confusing :dunce:...are we clear now? :lol:
 
Simple...if correct then Part I and Part II apply. If over 42" deep then its permanent. As for the bonding...just crack open 680.26 as its self explanatory...to me anyway:)

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Well....if the motor is plastic I would also assume it has a double insulated cord as well. Did you say the side panel was metal...bond to top of that if you feel the need, I am sure its surface area has more than 9 inches of surface area in contact with the water.

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And if the pool has no metal in contact with the water...tried calling the manufacturer of the pool?

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RLyons said:
I was asked to install an outlet for one of those simple snap together above ground pools. I told the owner I couldn't just put in a outlet until I knew if said pool fell under the usual nec bonding rules.

Here is the exact model In question

So my question is the #8 wire around the pool with 4 points of contact ending at the motor along with the water bond would be required for such a pool?
The hose connections for the pump look proprietary so It doesn't look like I can easily do the 1" thread in water bond using a standard cpvc tee. The skimmer is definitely not big enough for the plate style bond either.

Where do metal removable ladder fall under this?

The pump is all plastic and has no ground lug and comes with a 25' factory whip with a gfi plug.
Would a GFI circuit still be required? and is the 25' lead even legal in a permanent installation?

In my own town any pool that is over a certain height (I think it said 2') and surface area that doesn't get emptied every night is required to be installed under the normal nec pool standards. Towns are requiring permanent fencing around the blow up ring style pools and any non rigid side pool 48" of less.

I'll call the inspector I know from the towns approved list and see what is required but wanted to see what is going on in the rest of the country
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That's the original post. He says that "...In my own town any pool that is over (2')... and that doesn't get emptied every night is required to be isntalled under the normal nec pool standards..." It seems everyone wants to ignore that and beat each other up.

The questions are about bonding the pool, pump & ladder and if the receptacle which the GFCI plug will plug into should be GFCI and if that 25' cord is legal.

One question which arises is whether that pump is required to be listed. Anyone know if the pump is required to be listed? Seems risky to not bond a pool pump these days.
 
Seems Like this has been discussed before..
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=138031

And looking at this:
http://www.topshammaine.com/vertica...ticle_680_Pools_and_Similar_Installations.pdf

On top of what MasterTheNEC has stated

Seems like the 42" part is the hiccup?

My take is as long as my outlet is less than 20' but more than 6' away and no metal fitting larger than 4" make contact I install a GFI outlet (because it is outside) and I am good to go.

Still waiting to hear back from mister inspector to confirm.
 
mgookin said:
That's the original post. He says that "...In my own town any pool that is over (2')... and that doesn't get emptied every night is required to be isntalled under the normal nec pool standards..." It seems everyone wants to ignore that and beat each other up.

The questions are about bonding the pool, pump & ladder and if the receptacle which the GFCI plug will plug into should be GFCI and if that 25' cord is legal.

One question which arises is whether that pump is required to be listed. Anyone know if the pump is required to be listed? Seems risky to not bond a pool pump these days.
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I think the key point in my statement that I missed is the fact (in this particular case) no metal parts are involved.

I know that pools are risky which is why I want to educate myself. Although this tennis match looks futile it has caused me to dig deeper into the codes which I am unfamiliar with and I appreciate that.

Again, thanks to all...I am hear to learn :thumbsup:
 
RLyons said:
I think the key point in my statement that I missed is the fact (in this particular case) no metal parts are involved.

I know that pools are risky which is why I want to educate myself. Although this tennis match looks futile it has caused me to dig deeper into the codes which I am unfamiliar with and I appreciate that.

Again, thanks to all...I am hear to learn :thumbsup:
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Yep...Just don't forget compliance to Section 680.26(B)(2) and Section 680.26(C) and you are all set:angel:
 
Little Bill said:
I've had people call me about installing the electric to these above ground pools. They said the pool place said it shouldn't cost more than $100 for the electrical, which they usually tell them "you just need a place to plug it in"!:rant:
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And even if that is all that is needed it still has a good chance to be more then $100.
 
kwired said:
And even if that is all that is needed it still has a good chance to be more then $100.
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That was part of my point. The retailers just tell them anything to make the sale and get them out the door!

The part about the $100 is a true story for me. A lady had me give her a quote for an above ground pool. It met the requirements for a permanent pool, ie; bonding w/#8 encircling the pool, 120V GFCI receptacle, etc. Just the receptacle for the pump was going to be expensive because it was 60'-80' from the panel to the pool. And that was going through attic, drywall, block, brick, etc. Then adding a 4x4 post, bubble cover, etc.

She the same as accused me of trying to rip her off because the pool place said "should be no more than $100 to get a plug out by the pool for the pump".:roll:
 
Storable Swimming, Wading, or Immersion Pool. Those that are constructed on or above the ground and are capable of holding water to a maximum depth of 1.0 m (42 in.), or a pool with nonmetallic, molded polymeric walls or inflatable fabric walls regardless of dimension.

The part that says... "or a pool with nonmetallic, molded polymeric walls or inflatable fabric walls regardless of dimension"

Tells me that any nonmetallic or inflatable pool is storable regardless of the (42inch) depth too. They would be subject to parts 1&3 of article 680.

Here are some rules to start with...

1. 110.3(B) manufacturers instructions with the product must be followed.
2. 680.7 (B) requires the cord to have a #12 grounding conductor.
3. 680.10 No underground wiring within 5 feet of pool.
4. 680.12 Disconnect required within sight.
5. GFCI required to be integral part of cord.
6. 680.34 no receptacle within 6 feet of pool.

shortcircuit
 
I am not sure that a pool with metal supporting structure and flexible plastic or fabric panels is included in "molded polymeric walls. That and the inflatable option both make me think of self supporting walls rather than a bolt together framework with a liner.

Tapatalk!
 
Yesterday I tried to Google polymeric.

It seems the NEC is the only user of that word.

But forget that can anyone post a polymeric pool without a metal frame?
 
The small wading pools using rigid plastic.
Polymeric, meaning the polymerized (long molecules) variation on the underlying chemical compound. Example: Polyethylene versus ethylene. Polystyrene versus styrene.

Tapatalk!
 
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