So, would you.......?

[Fulthrotl]

i stopped by and picked up some #4 hypress butt splices,
and some panduit 600 volt heat shrink.... at $9 a foot,
i didn't stock up.... and i made up a sample for customer
education, showing how it works.....

now, here's the theoretical question....

the panduit is rated for 600 volt..... if you had a set of motor leads, for example, that were a smidge
too short, in a piece of sealtight, would you extend the leads using this stuff, staggering the splices,
and slide it back into the sealtight? the sealtight would have a ground bushing on the end, and the
splices would not overlap, staggered say a foot apart....

i'm just curious..... you heat shrink the stuff at 850 degrees, and the inner adhesive seals it up
suitable for direct burial...

Voltage rating: UL 486D Listed for 600V 90?C continuous use. 1 KV hipot.

http://www.panduit.com/groups/MPM-GAWA/documents/SpecificationSheet/CMSCONT_080893.pdf

so... would you put it inside a piece of sealtight?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Well I don't believe it is legal but will it work , Yes. I can not see an issue except that those splices may not be approved for indoors. It would probably cost more to splice it then to replace the wire.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Well I don't believe it is legal but will it work , Yes. I can not see an issue except that those splices may not be approved for indoors. It would probably cost more to splice it then to replace the wire.

well, in this case, i'm gonna use a 2" C condulet with RE's. the conduit is 1", and i'm transitioning from emt to sealtight.
it feeds a package unit on a roof. put the splices in the LB, and make it up.... it's a changeout, and the existing
wire is about 3 feet short...... and after i made the sample up, i looked at it and thought... crap, these things are bulletproof...
i'll still use the C, but i was thinking it was a bit of a waste....

 

[Cow]

I have done and will continue to do what you describe Fulthrottl. We do a crap ton of farm work, tons of motors, etc for irrigation. Often times for one reason or another a lug will burn up in the motor, and the motor leads come right into the j-box with no slack. If I need to cut that wire back 6" to get the burnt part off with a little piece buttspliced back on, I will.

Of course, if it was close to the pump panel I'd just repull the wire. But if it's a ways out there, I'm not going to repull it just for 6" of wire. Right or wrong it's how we do it.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I can't imaging it is an issue but you never know what an inspector would say. Heck you put tape on a nic in a wire this certain is a connection that has stood the test of time. Sure they fail but it is a great idea in an LB etc

 

[Fulthrotl]

I have done and will continue to do what you describe Fulthrottl. We do a crap ton of farm work, tons of motors, etc for irrigation. Often times for one reason or another a lug will burn up in the motor, and the motor leads come right into the j-box with no slack. If I need to cut that wire back 6" to get the burnt part off with a little piece buttspliced back on, I will.

Of course, if it was close to the pump panel I'd just repull the wire. But if it's a ways out there, I'm not going to repull it just for 6" of wire. Right or wrong it's how we do it.

these are about 300' long..... the C condulet will work, and is easier as i don't have to support a box or gutter..... just a minnie on the end of the pipe, and a minnie on the sealtight..

 

[ptonsparky]

We spliced 8 wires in a conduit going up a pole as you have suggested. Mice had destroyed them. Works great. Advantage of outside and miles from a neighbor.

 

[220/221]

the panduit is rated for 600 volt..

Is there an amp rating on it?

What is the splice rated for, volts/amps? One would assume that it's rated for at least the wire size it's sized for.

I'd do it without hesitation.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Is there an amp rating on it?

What is the splice rated for, volts/amps? One would assume that it's rated for at least the wire size it's sized for.

I'd do it without hesitation.

the insulation is rated for 600 VAC @ 90 degrees C, so you don't have to derate the wire,
and it's tested with hipot @ 1,000 volts. dielectric strength is 6.9 KV.

the hipress is a burndy product, and i believe all swaged lugs are 90 degrees C,
and rated for the ampacity of the wire they are sized for.

and i don't think i'd have a problem with it either, but in this case, the C condulet works
in my favor, and makes the splices accessable, for whatever good that amounts to...

i can put a compression coupling and a 2"~1" RE on the end of the emt, crimp the burndys,
and join the wires together, slip the heat shrink on and shrink it, slip the C over and spin it up,
put the second RE into the C, over the wire, then measure the sealtight, put ends on it,
slide it over the wire, and up into the package unit, and make it up......

thanks for all of your feedback....

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Is there an amp rating on it?....

Why would an insulator have a current rating?????

 

[renosteinke]

Might not be approved for indoors? Huh?

Is there anything made for the outdoors that cannot be used indoors? Where the heck did that bit of sophistry come from?

There IS a role for such connections, though these discussions seem to only see the 'forbidden' uses.

For example, I frequently use similar products when changing out pumps and floats in sewage lift stations. You're simply not going to be able to replace the entire lead length, as the leads invariably get cemented / swollen / whatever to the inside of the pipe they're in. So, you make your splice in the pit.

Even on the rare instance where you can, the junction box next to the pit is subject to flooding, and those splices are as watertight as you're ever going to find.

Another common use is for service connections at the weatherhead.

 

[fmtjfw]

Might not be approved for indoors? Huh?

Is there anything made for the outdoors that cannot be used indoors? Where the heck did that bit of sophistry come from?

There IS a role for such connections, though these discussions seem to only see the 'forbidden' uses.

For example, I frequently use similar products when changing out pumps and floats in sewage lift stations. You're simply not going to be able to replace the entire lead length, as the leads invariably get cemented / swollen / whatever to the inside of the pipe they're in. So, you make your splice in the pit.

Even on the rare instance where you can, the junction box next to the pit is subject to flooding, and those splices are as watertight as you're ever going to find.

Another common use is for service connections at the weatherhead.

Lots of stuff that is outside only. Typically has to do with with fire resistance, smoke production. IGS cable, USE cable, HDPE conduit are quick examples.

 

[PetrosA]

Is an irreversible connection like this considered a splice for purposes of access? It's not like you can open a JB and undo/redo the connection...

 

[dhalleron]

Is an irreversible connection like this considered a splice for purposes of access? It's not like you can open a JB and undo/redo the connection...

This is my vote. I don't think it needs to be accessible.

 

[fmtjfw]

This thread appears to be about expediency and not about the NEC requirements

This thread appears to be about expediency and not about the NEC requirements

It appears that splices must be accessible. It appears that splices can be made in direct burial and Concealed Knob and Tube as the only exceptions.

300.13 Mechanical and Electrical Continuity ? Conductors.
(A) General. Conductors in raceways shall be continuous between outlets, boxes, devices, and so forth. there shall be no splice or tap within a raceway unless permitted by 300.15; 368.56(a); 376.56; 378.56; 384.56; 386.56; 388.56; or 390.7.

300.15 Boxes, Conduit Bodies, or Fittings ?Where Required. A box shall be installed at each outlet and switch point for concealed knob-and-tube wiring. Fittings and connectors shall be used only with the specific wiring methods for which they are designed and listed. Where the wiring method is conduit, tubing, Type AC cable, Type MC cable, Type MI cable, nonmetallic-sheathed cable, or other cables, a box or conduit body shall be installed at each conductor splice point, outlet point, switch point, junction point, termination point, or pull point, unless otherwise permitted in 300.15(A) through (L).
(A) Wiring Methods with Interior Access. A box or conduit body shall not be required for each splice, junction, switch, pull, termination, or outlet points in wiring methods with removable covers, such as wireways, multioutlet assemblies, auxiliary gutters, and surface raceways. The covers shall be accessible after installation.
(B) Equipment. An integral junction box or wiring compartment as part of approved equipment shall be permitted in lieu of a box.
(C) Protection. A box or conduit body shall not be required where cables enter or exit from conduit or tubing that is used to provide cable support or protection against physical damage. A fitting shall be provided on the end(s) of the conduit or tubing to protect the cable from abrasion.
(D) Type MI Cable. A box or conduit body shall not be required where accessible fittings are used for straight-through splices in mineral-insulated metal-sheathed cable.
(E) Integral Enclosure. A wiring device with integral enclosure identified for the use, having brackets that securely fasten the device to walls or ceilings of conventional onsite frame construction, for use with nonmetallic-sheathed cable, shall be permitted in lieu of a box or conduit body.
Informational Note: See 334.30(C); 545.10; 550.15(I); 551.47(E), Exception No. 1; and 552.48(E), Exception No. 1.
(F) Fitting. A fitting identified for the use shall be permitted in lieu of a box or conduit body where conductors are not spliced or terminated within the fitting. The fitting shall be accessible after installation.
(G) Direct-Buried Conductors. As permitted in 300.5(E), a box or conduit body shall not be required for splices and taps in direct-buried conductors and cables.
(H) Insulated Devices. As permitted in 334.40(B), a box or conduit body shall not be required for insulated devices supplied by nonmetallic-sheathed cable.
(I) Enclosures. A box or conduit body shall not be required where a splice, switch, terminal, or pull point is in a cabinet or cutout box, in an enclosure for a switch or overcurrent device
as permitted in 312.8, in a motor controller as permitted in 430.10(A), or in a motor control center.
(J) Luminaires. A box or conduit body shall not be required where a luminaire is used as a raceway as permitted in 410.64.
(K) Embedded. A box or conduit body shall not be required for splices where conductors are embedded as permitted in 424.40, 424.41(D), 426.22(B), 426.24(A), and 427.19(A).
(L) Manholes and Handhole Enclosures. A box or conduit body shall not be required for conductors in manholes or handhole enclosures, except where connecting to electrical equipment. The installation shall comply with the provisions of Part V of Article 110 for manholes, and 314.30
for handhole enclosures.

IMC, RMC, FMC, LFMC, PVC, HDPE, NUCC, RTRC, LNFC, EMT, FMT, ENT
3xx.56 Splices and Taps. Splices and taps shall be made in accordance with 300.15.

CCFR
372.12 Splices and Taps. Splices and taps shall be made only in header access units or junction boxes. A continuous unbroken conductor connecting the individual outlets is not a splice or tap.

CMFR
374.6 Splices and Taps. Splices and taps shall be made only in header access units or junction boxes.
For the purposes of this section, so-called loop wiring (continuous unbroken conductor connecting the individual outlets) shall not be considered to be a splice or tap.

NE
382.56 Splices and Taps. Extensions shall consist of a continuous unbroken length of the assembly, without splices, and without exposed conductors between fittings, connectors, or
devices. Taps shall be permitted where approved fittings completely covering the tap connections are used. Aerial cable and its tap connectors shall be provided with an approved means for polarization. Receptacle-type tap connectors shall be of the locking type.

UFR
390.7 Splices and Taps. Splices and taps shall be made only in junction boxes. For the purposes of this section, so-called loop wiring (continuous, unbroken conductor connecting the individual
outlets) shall not be considered to be a splice or tap.
Exception: Splices and taps shall be permitted in trenchtype flush raceway having a removable cover that is accessible after installation. The conductors, including splices and taps, shall not fill more than 75 percent of the raceway area at that point.

CT
392.56 Cable Splices. Cable splices made and insulated by approved methods shall be permitted to be located within a cable tray, provided they are accessible. Splices shall be permitted to project above the side rails where not subject to physical damage.

CKT
394.56 Splices and Taps. Splices shall be soldered unless approved splicing devices are used. In-line or strain splices shall not be used.

M
396.56 Conductor Splices and Taps. Conductor splices and taps made and insulated by approved methods shall be permitted in messenger-supported wiring.

 

[220/221]

Why would an insulator have a current rating?????

I was referring to the splice thing.

 

[Fulthrotl]

It appears that splices must be accessible. It appears that splices can be made in direct burial and Concealed Knob and Tube as the only exceptions.

yup. that's why there will be a condulet there....

and i know why... it's a very short slippery slope from
"we can extend this in a piece of sealtight" to
"we can pull it 20'.. it's a straight shot" to
"order another 20 hypresses and heat shrink,
we can use up all these 500 MCM ends here...."

i knew what the rule is, i was just wondering what the
general thought was... and it seems to be.... yeah,
in the right situation, most of us might do it.

and the fix for me would be to shorten up the run, put
double the size of condulet as the conduit, make it up,
put it together, and be done with it. legal, speedy, safe, etc.

i was just wondering if i was the only one with "evil thoughts"....
seems not...

thanks for taking the time to post the relevant section...

 

[petersonra]

is this listed as a splice? if so, it can't be inside a piece of conduit.