Soaper Monkey

[tkb]

Has anyone purchased or used the SoaperMonkey ??

Wondering if it would be worth investing in.
This could possibly make most wire pulls a 2 man job. One to feed and soap and one on the puller.

 

[coppertreeelectric]

Re: Soaper Monkey

Aren't most wire pulls a two man job?

 

[dillon3c]

Re: Soaper Monkey

I think it could be a nice little tool.But I don't see the elimination of labor cost, as film predicts and would lead to believe.

 

[mdshunk]

Re: Soaper Monkey

That's a heck of a big setup for what may not amount to much savings. The only "benefit" I can think of for sure is that it might keep your hands, arms, and legs from getting too slopped up. Count me out on that monster rig.

 

[tkb]

Re: Soaper Monkey

I meant the larger pulls that need more than 2 feeding.

I'll bet that it has a Greenlee price and it would take a lot of pulls to pay for it.

 

[celtic]

Re: Soaper Monkey

...don't we have that already?
I think it's called an apprentice. LOL

 

[peter]

Re: Soaper Monkey

Modified and corrected response.
t amount of friction. Furthermore, the greater the amount of pulling tension, the greater the amount of friction.
~Peter J. Michael
This got garbeled.
1st point was that the conduit could be pre-lubed.
2nd point was that machinists use a mechanism to apply coolant to their lathe bits, This might be able to pump wire lube onto the cables as the enter the conduit.
3rd point Gerald Newton [Electrician.com] mentioned that pushing wires helped greatly in the pulling process. Grenlee and HIS make a device to assist pulling cable off the reels which requires effort in itself. Eventually someone will invent such a device to automatically shove the cables into the conduit. Thus eliminating one person or more.
The theory is that a cable pushed into a bend will ride against the outer diameter of the bend and will bounce off of it and, hence, will have little resistance. On the other hand, pulling that cable will cause it to rub against the inside of the tube thus increasing the friction.

[ May 22, 2005, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: peter ]

 

[peter]

Re: Soaper Monkey

The problem I see with lubricating the cables is that the lube will soon wear off as the cable travels through the conduit. For instance, 75% of it will be gone after 15 or 25 feet.
Lubricating the entire run in advance would help insure that the furthest bends are properly lubricated.
~Peter

 

[Nick]

Re: Soaper Monkey

Peter,
Pre lubing the conduit is not a good idea. The lube saturates the rope and makes gripping the capstand very difficult. I tried it once just to see and won't ever do it again. It might work OK if using a Hogg-Davis to pull with but I haven't tried that. Polywater makes bags full of lube you tie to the head and cut as they go in the pipe. They squeeze out lube in front of the cable as it travels. Especially around bends. This way the rope stays dry.
I don't agree that most of the soap is gone after a few feet. I have done many several hundred foot runs that when the head comes out it is still pretty saturated.

 

[celtic]

Re: Soaper Monkey

Some lubes have the OPPOSITE effect when left "out". They become like cement....yellow 77 comes to mind ? ? ? .

I have done pulls in excess of 500' with a few soapers at the various condulet bodies and JBs w/o incident.

On shorter runs, under 100', also no problem with lubing as you go.

Both situations assumes the pipe run was done "properly" in the first place. By "properly", I mean the run was installed keeping in mind that someone will need to pull wire through it at some point...JBs and condulet bodies arranged for easy access for adding soap/used as pulling points, etc.

Guys that KNOW how to run pipe know that it will their life easier if they run the pipe with the thought that they might be the guy pulling wire through it.

 

[charlie]

Re: Soaper Monkey

They become like cement....yellow 77 comes to mind ? ? ?

Your age is showing, the problems that Yellow 77 had were fixed a long time ago.

 

[celtic]

Re: Soaper Monkey

Originally posted by charlie:
Your age is showing, ...

oh crap...I got old!

 

[peter]

Re: Soaper Monkey

Nick,
What is a HoggDavis? Do you have a link for polywater? Perhaps just tying a rag soaked in lube at the connection between the cable head and the rope might do the trick. I'm just trying to think of ideas to improve the process.
The point about running the conduit with pulling wires into it later in mind is well taken. I agree.
Does any body have any comments on my theory as to why pushing is so effective?
~Peter

 

[mdshunk]

Re: Soaper Monkey

Originally posted by peter:
Does any body have any comments on my theory as to why pushing is so effective?

I don't know if your analysis is right or not, but the fact remains that one 'pusher' and one 'puller' is often more efficient than one 'soaper' and one 'puller' for certain runs. I really don't know how to effectively communicate which 'certain runs' these are, but I know them when I see them.

Even with soaping big heavy runs, if you can get a guy with dry hands on the feed end to push some, it makes all the difference in the world sometimes. I suppose in a perfect situation, you'd have all the sheeves and rollers and feeding tubes set up that you really wouldn't need to guide or push on the feed end. I'm not that big of an operator. I make due. I have to wonder sometimes when I see these big "erector set" cable guides and sheaves such set up on the feed end for pulls, if the time spent setting up the pull couldn't have been spent pulling the wire and been done. It just seems like the 4 guys standing watching the pull could have just guided the conductors themselves. Maybe I'm a little backwards?

[A Hogg/Davis is a big azz puller that's mounted on a trailer used by linemen for pulling overhead conductors. I would think that it might have enough power to unearth buried conduits if the pull got tight.]

[ May 24, 2005, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: mdshunk ]

 

[celtic]

Re: Soaper Monkey

Originally posted by mdshunk:
I have to wonder sometimes when I see these big "erector set" cable guides and sheaves such set up on the feed end for pulls, if the time spent setting up the pull couldn't have been spent pulling the wire and been done. It just seems like the 4 guys standing watching the pull could have just guided the conductors themselves. Maybe I'm a little backwards?

Ever see the shape of the CREW after a 400' long pull of 500KCMs x4?
Setting up the erector set (or "contraption", as I call it)

is worth the time - depending on the pull. A bunch of #10's, usually by hand...we start talking anything over maybe a 4/0 @ 100' and we are talking pulling machine - or one tired crew (which means less pulls per day).

A pull like the one in the picture above *might* be accomplished with a couple of guys falling all over each other trying to pull UP...but will they be pulling consistantly at 12'/minute? A 100' long pull should take under 10 minutes with a machine...no matter the size conductor(not including "set-up" time for the reels).

The average machine pulls 12'/minute - through whatever is there...4,5,6 90? (yup - right thru the pull box, no stopping). The machine is a HUGE timesaver when multiple runs are present.


I like to run pipe(the bigger the better) - but actually "enjoy" pulling wire..and all the associated "rigging"

 

[mdshunk]

Re: Soaper Monkey

Originally posted by celtic:
Ever see the shape of the CREW after a 400' long pull of 500KCMs x4?

I didn't intend to suggest that such a 'contraption' not be used on the pull end. It has great merit. I was complaining about such ellaborate rigs on the feed (reel)end, to guide the conductors to the pipe.

 

[celtic]

Re: Soaper Monkey

Originally posted by mdshunk:
I was complaining about such ellaborate rigs on the feed (reel)end, to guide the conductors to the pipe.

I have to agree with you there...on the feed end, a bushing (maybe a cardboard guide, also catches excess soap), and some bodies...one soaping, as many bodies as are needed on the reels - let the machine do the work.

I can't see the usefullness of the "soaper monkey" - maybe if you were shorthanded?

..if we were talking manholes...now that's a serious erector set/contraption.

 

[Nick]

Re: Soaper Monkey

Hogg-Davis This will pull your wire inside out if your not careful but it works great on long runs through manhole systems.
Polywater

[ May 25, 2005, 01:19 AM: Message edited by: Nick ]

 

[celtic]

Re: Soaper Monkey

I've never seen those front end bags used...looks impressively simple....

N = 0.003 x T x L x D

Where:
N = Number of packs required
T = 1 for J-55 packs (half-gallon size) or 2 for J-27 packs (one-quart size)
L = Length of pull in feet
D = Nominal I.D. of conduit in inches

So for a 200' run of 4" RGS.
N = 0.003 x 2 x 200 x 4
N = 4.8 (quarts) or 1.2 gallons

 

[tkb]

Re: Soaper Monkey

I was asking one of my supply houses about the Soaper Monkey and he said that it was about $3700 for the 5 gal pump and the AL fittings 1/2 to 4.

Their video says it would pay for itself in 40 hrs of continual use.

I DON'T THINK SO!!!