Soft 11 and 13 gauge copper wire?

[James L]

I ran into something today that I'd never seen before. Changing kitchen devices, and it looked like 10 gauge wire at the receptacles. But it wasn't 10 gauge, it was between 10 & 12

The #12 hole on my strippers pinched the copper. But the #10 hole didn't cut all the way through the insulation. So 11 gauge is about where it was.

In the picture, I held a piece of #12 next to the #11 (or 11.5)

At the light switches, same oversized wire. #14 hole pinched the copper, but the #12 hole didn't cut all the way through the insulation.

To boot, this was the softest copper I've seen. Almost as soft as aluminum, but not quite.

House was 70s-ish with Zinsco panel.

It just made me go Hmmm

 

[tesi1]

looks like copper clad aluminum

 

[Cannotlogin]

4mm2 wire?

 

[James L]

looks like copper clad aluminum

I didn't think of that, but it makes sense

 

[hbiss]

I didn't think of that, but it makes sense

Look at the cut end. In that first picture you can clearly see a silver colored center with copper on the outside.

-Hal

 

[James L]

Look at the cut end. In that first picture you can clearly see a silver colored center with copper on the outside.

-Hal

Yeah. It never occurred to me that it could be copper clad aluminum

 

[Cannotlogin]

Whats the story behind copper clad aluminum?

 

[LarryFine]

Whats the story behind copper clad aluminum?

Cheapness and lightness of aluminum without the connectivity issues . . . in theory.

 

[Jraef]

Cheapness and lightness of aluminum without the connectivity issues . . . in theory.

In theory is an understatement... it didn't work out well, which is why you don't see it very often.

 

[James L]

In theory is an understatement... it didn't work out well, which is why you don't see it very often.

My first time. I know/knew it's out tgere, but never seen it.

 

[drcampbell]

"In theory" is an understatement... it didn't work out well ...

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. But in practice, there is.

Back in the 1960s, Lucas (automotive electrics) used copper-clad steel tabs on headlight switches and the like. After a few years, especially in England's moist & salty maritime climate, you ended up with a thin copper envelope filled with rust flakes that disintegrated at the slightest touch. (let alone removing & replacing the connector) And corrosion started early, because the very act of mating the connector onto the tab gouged four grooves into the copper, usually exposing the steel.

That's why Sir Robert Lucas was nicknamed, "The Prince of Darkness".

 

[don_resqcapt19]

There was a huge push in the PIs for the 2023 code to permit 14 AWG copper clad aluminum on 10 amp branch circuits. I believe that some of the proposals to permit that were accepted at the committee meetings. Not sure if they will pass ballot and show up in the first revision report.

 

[GeorgeB]

My first time. I know/knew it's out there, but never seen it.

Go to your local Harbor Fright (or eBay or Amazon) and look at the automotive jumper cables. IMO, over 75% are CCA. Most are honest about it.

This is of course not for NEC wiring, and what I've seen is usually fine stranding.

 

[kwired]

Go to your local Harbor Fright (or eBay or Amazon) and look at the automotive jumper cables. IMO, over 75% are CCA. Most are honest about it.

This is of course not for NEC wiring, and what I've seen is usually fine stranding.

I was going to ask - this works on something that is typically fine stranding? Maybe it doesn't, at least not for very long.

 

[drcampbell]

Go to your local Harbor Fright (or eBay or Amazon) and look at the automotive jumper cables. IMO, over 75% are [copper-clad aluminum] ...

I had no idea. I did look at Harbor Fright's website just now; all four jumper cables they offer are overtly copper-clad aluminum. (didn't say anything about stranding) One of them is 10AWG--Yikes!

Another thing that's common in cheap jumper cables is extraordinary-thick insulation, to lend the illusion of a higher-capacity cable.

 

[retirede]

I had no idea. I did look at Harbor Fright's website just now; all four jumper cables they offer are overtly copper-clad aluminum. (didn't say anything about stranding) One of them is 10AWG--Yikes!

Another thing that's common in cheap jumper cables is extraordinary-thick insulation, to lend the illusion of a higher-capacity cable.

The extra thick insulation takes longer to melt!

 

[James L]

Go to your local Harbor Fright (or eBay or Amazon) and look at the automotive jumper cables. IMO, over 75% are CCA. Most are honest about it.

This is of course not for NEC wiring, and what I've seen is usually fine stranding.

Yeah, I've used CCA finely stranded speaker wire. I had no idea about Harbor Freight

 

[drcampbell]

The extra thick insulation takes longer to melt!

If it has good thermal-insulation properties, and the air temperature is cold enough, the outer surface of the insulation never will -- it'll just become a bag of jelly.

 

[LarryFine]

I would never (knowingly) buy aluminum jumper cables.

Now, I have to look more closely at mine.

 

[K8MHZ]

I made a set of cables out of 1/0 welding cable. I used 400 amp clamps. They have served me well for over 25 years.