Soft Starts

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puckman

Senior Member
Location
ridgewood, n.j.
We have a 150 hp motor 480 volts running @ 90amps. This motor is operating a pump and we are looking to not operate this across the line anymore . We were thinking of a soft start but we really are not expierenced in soft starts at all and were wondering if anyone has any ideas where to get the right information on these?
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
I was in the soft starter business for 20+ years. Without knowing anything else about your application, here's some general advice.

Don't go too cheap. Soft starters are designed and built to a "numbers game". If one is cheaper than another, there is a reason. The usual method of cutting cost is to remove heat sink material and then call it "light duty". In some applications, such as many centrifugal pumps, that might be OK. I mention it to make sure you know what you are getting. Sometimes manufacturers don't actually tell you the product is light duty, they bury the information in a chart (or charts) by which you have to know, in advance, the ramp time, current limit and ambient temperature before you even buy the product. That's usually a clue as to how they approach the market and you need to be extra careful with them.

Be aware of where and how you are going to mount it. Use ventilated enclosure styles ONLY if it is going to be mounted in a very clean protected room. Soft starters produce heat, which means fans, and fans pull in dust and contaminants along with the cooling air. Filters just add to your maintenance burden. If there is any chance the soft starter is going to be in a dirty or wet environment, use a sealed enclosure (NEMA 4 or 12) and a bypass contactor.

Think ahead about a bypass contactor. If you want or need, for any reason, the ability to start the motor across-the-line should something happen to the soft starter (i.e. lightning hit etc.), then the cheaper one's that have "integral bypass contacts" are useless. You will still need a separate bypass contact and overload relay anyway, so you end up paying for it twice. However you might consider leaving the old X-line starter you have now in place as the emergency bypass and getting one of the less expensive soft starters.

Buy from someone you trust who knows what the product is. Lots of people have access to them, not all of those people have a clue what they are or how to support them. If you want to be your own tech support, no problem, but if not, talk to potential suppliers who have good people on staff.
 

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
What starts/stops the pump? If you're using a pressure switch, you could possibly switch to a VFD and a pressure transducer. It'd ramp up when water starts flowing, maintain pressure, and then go back to sleep when flow stopped.

I just programmed an Allen Bradley Powerflex 400 to do this for a water system feeding 14 homes, they didn't even have a pressure tank either.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
With the ease of setup and price VFD's are the only wat to go

Sure if you want to have to make a lot of repairs.

I really dislike the trend I have been seeing lately with VFDs being used for any application regardless of the need to control the running speed or not.
 

JWCELECTRIC

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Sure if you want to have to make a lot of repairs.

I really dislike the trend I have been seeing lately with VFDs being used for any application regardless of the need to control the running speed or not.

I agree, you only need a VFD if the process requires the motor to slow down, speed up, otherwise you are spending money where it can be used elsewhere. Also as Jraef had mentioned get your soft-starter with by-pass contactor option. In case you need the motor and the S/S goes down you have backup during repair. A good reason for the Soft-starter it to prevend fluctuations on your eletrical system if you have senstive equipment when your motor starts and stops.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Sure if you want to have to make a lot of repairs.

I really dislike the trend I have been seeing lately with VFDs being used for any application regardless of the need to control the running speed or not.
I agree. VFDs, while wonderful things, are not the end-all / be-all for motor control. If there is no benefit to slowing down, there is no reason to put them in. The MTBF on a VFD is probably 1/10th that of a soft starter and the cost/HP is about 5X that of a soft starter once you get above 30HP, increasing to 10X above about 200HP. Below 10HP, soft starters can no longer compete rce wise because of the super cheap Aisian drives flodding the market. But you still have the complexity issue.

In addition, VFDs have permanent losses associated with them; they are at best 97% efficient (most are lower), so you are ALWAYS losing energy through them if the motor is running at full speed. I've seen too many people putting in VFDs as "glorified soft starters" and then wondering why their energy costs went up.

Energy savings with VFDs, while very real in certain applications, is NOT automatic. It is seriously over sold.
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
We have a 150 hp motor 480 volts running @ 90amps. This motor is operating a pump and we are looking to not operate this across the line anymore . We were thinking of a soft start but we really are not expierenced in soft starts at all and were wondering if anyone has any ideas where to get the right information on these?

A couple of points.
Do you mean you don't want an across the line start?
Is this just because of the starting current?
If that's the case, then a soft start would help. Added to what Jraef has already posted, I'd always have a bypass contactor. It reduces losses which is, in itself, no bad thing. And consequently, as he correctly points out, it also allows a higher rated enclosure to be used.

Perhaps another thing to consider is the rating of the existing motor. If it is running at 90A isn't it very lightly loaded? From simple calculations and assuming typical power factor and efficiency, the rated current would be perhaps 170A. I'm sure someone here can provide NEC figures.
My point is that, if a smaller motor would do the duty, that would reduce the starting current without the complexity of adding an electronic soft start.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
...
My point is that, if a smaller motor would do the duty, that would reduce the starting current without the complexity of adding an electronic soft start.
Hey, this is America!
If a 75HP will do the job, we put in a 150HP motor... ;)

As Tim "The Tool Man" Taylor would say, "MORE POWER! Ungh ungh ungh..."
dixiechopper2.jpg

(Actual riding lawn mower used by Tim Allen in his race with Bob Villa)
 

puckman

Senior Member
Location
ridgewood, n.j.
The start up drops out some lights when motor starts up. 150 hp running at 90 amps.
Thinking soft star would help, just don,t know the best way to handle it .
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
It is a Chevy LS3 Corvette motor.
It must be a completely new block. I based my statement on the fact that the Chevy SB always had the two center exhaust ports on each side together. The BB is the one that had equally-spaced ports.
 
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