solid grounding electrode conductor inside of a conduit a violation?

[Jim W in Tampa]

I disagree. No taping is required for a GEC.

So are you saying we can use any color we want ?

 

[roger]

because it must be green or bare or reidentify with green tape if larger than #6

Jim, the GEC can be any color except for a color mentioned in article 200.

Roger

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Jim, the GEC can be any color except for a color mentioned in article 200.

Roger

guess i been wasting green tape

 

[Dennis Alwon]

guess i been wasting green tape

It doesn't hurt to use it just not necessary. I am sure some inspector will tell you it is necessary but it is not in the code book.

 

[petersonra]

IMO, It does not specifically say so. 250.62 says the GEC can be solid or stranded. It does not say it can be solid in conduit. Article 310.3 says it must be stranded in conduit for size 8 and larger.

250.62 tells you what can be used for GECs.

250.64 specifically says that the GEC can be installed in a conduit.

How does that not cover it?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

250.62 tells you what can be used for GECs.

250.64 specifically says that the GEC can be installed in a conduit.

How does that not cover it?

Yes it says the gec can be installed in conduit but 310.3 puts a restriction on the type of wire allowed in conduit.

Look at it this way there is nothing restricting manufacturers from making a solid conductor larger than #8. Now if a feeder wire is allowed to be solid can I install it in conduit? No 310.3 says I can't.

 

[david]

I need alittle help in determining if the code will allow us to pull a solid #6 bare copper Grounding Electrode conductor inside a conduit with ungrounded and grounded current carrying conductors also inside of the same conduit? QUOTE]

Just for clarification what are the other conductors in the same conduit with the GEC

 

[david]

Sorry I have to go.

I know running GEC in a raceway with other circuit conductors is not a good idea.

I was thinking that the conduit providing physical protection for GEC is not defined as a raceway system. I assume the other circuit conductors you are referring to are required to be installed in a raceway system. I actually never saw GEC run in a raceway with other circuit conductors. I need to look into this further but I question if you can use conduit providing physical protection for GEC as a raceway system for other circuit conductors.

 

[Strife]

Not sure what the answer is specifically.
But I assume you have a bunch of #6 bare copper and don't want to spend the money on a #6 green stranded.
Not sure how far this is, but, if it's 100'+ my opinion would be: sell the bare #6 and buy some #6 green stranded. That and the savings in the labor will make up the price difference.

I need alittle help in determining if the code will allow us to pull a solid #6 bare copper Grounding Electrode conductor inside a conduit with ungrounded and grounded current carrying conductors also inside of the same conduit? The inspector says that this is a code violation and refers to Article 310.3, which states that any conductor #8 or larger inside a conduit must be stranded, the exception to this, states that except as permited elsewhere in the code. Article 250.62 states a Grounding Electrode conductor shall be copper, aluminum, or copper-clad aluminum, solid or stranded, insulated, covered or bare. Would this be an exception to a conductor having to be stranded in a conduit ? We know that you can put a grounding electrode conductor in a metal conduit for physical protection. Is there any other code references that would allow or disallow you to put a solid grounding electrode conductor #8 or larger inside a conduit? Do you agree or disagree with the inspector?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

sell the bare #6 and buy some #6 green stranded. That and the savings in the labor will make up the price difference.

The wire does not need to be green.

 

[Strife]

Well, I was thinking dollar value, and down here vendors don't want to cut #6 black, but they'll cut green #6.

The wire does not need to be green.

 

[roger]

Not sure how far this is, but, if it's 100'+ my opinion would be: sell the bare #6 and buy some #6 green stranded. That and the savings in the labor will make up the price difference.

I've never run a #6 GEC 100'.

Roger

 

[Strife]

Can you elaborate as to why?

I've never run a #6 GEC 100'.

Roger

 

[roger]

Can you elaborate as to why?

I have never driven rods more than a few feet away from the service equipment.

Roger

 

[Strife]

DUH,
Slowly pulling foot out of mouth.
Just realized this is about a GEC and not an EGC. Never thought having the GEC in same conduit as the feeders, solid/bare/stranded/or otherwise. So didn't even pay attention to the "GEC" thingie when I read about pulling in same conduit:-(

I have never driven rods more than a few feet away from the service equipment.

Roger

 

[roger]

DUH,
Slowly pulling foot out of mouth.
Just realized this is about a GEC and not an EGC. Never thought having the GEC in same conduit as the feeders, solid/bare/stranded/or otherwise. So didn't even pay attention to the "GEC" thingie when I read about pulling in same conduit:-(

I have misread things here on the forums more than I like to admit

Roger

 

[kwired]

guess i been wasting green tape

It doesn't hurt to use it just not necessary. I am sure some inspector will tell you it is necessary but it is not in the code book.

I can understand identifying the GEC in the situation described in the OP where there are other conductors in a raceway with the GEC but also understand there really is no requirement to do so. I don't like inspectors that want green tape at the end of a GEC that is not even installed in a raceway or sleeve and is just run along building surfaces. I see no point to identify this. If it is attached to a water pipe or structural steel I think it is obvious it is not an ungrounded conductor and back at the service it is obviously not an ungrounded conductor either that is why it is not landed on a fuse or breaker.

I've never run a #6 GEC 100'.

Roger

Can you elaborate as to why?

I have never driven rods more than a few feet away from the service equipment.

Roger

You have never had to run all the way across a building to attach the GEC within 5 feet of where the water pipe enters the building? Happens all the time here when putting a new service in an existing building - especially commercial/retail buildings. Water is always coming from street and electricity always from alley and they enter on opposite sides of building.

 

[roger]

You have never had to run all the way across a building to attach the GEC within 5 feet of where the water pipe enters the building? Happens all the time here when putting a new service in an existing building - especially commercial/retail buildings. Water is always coming from street and electricity always from alley and they enter on opposite sides of building.

So you install a lot of small services on these buildings?

Roger

 

[kwired]

So you install a lot of small services on these buildings?

Roger

I assume you mean that since a # 6 GEC is being run it is a small service. To be truthful 20 years ago we still were running an occasional 100 amp service. Now a 200 amp usually goes in even if 100 amps would do the job. Although a 125 amp 120/208 three phase will deliver close to same amount of KVA as a 200 amp 120/240 single phase but that rarely is installed either.

 

[roger]

I assume you mean that since a # 6 GEC is being run it is a small service. To be truthful 20 years ago we still were running an occasional 100 amp service. Now a 200 amp usually goes in even if 100 amps would do the job. Although a 125 amp 120/208 three phase will deliver close to same amount of KVA as a 200 amp 120/240 single phase but that rarely is installed either.

Hence why I said

I've never run a #6 GEC 100'

I didn't say I have never run a GEC 100', as a matter of fact, I have run GEC's much further than 100'


Roger