solid neutral

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pierre

Senior Member
Re: solid neutral

From Thinfool

"I agree with Pierre. "

After reading through 11 + pages on the other thread it is nice to see a simple agreement :cool: .

[ June 27, 2005, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: pierre ]
 

physis

Senior Member
Re: solid neutral

I looked at the link provided by mikesorel. The three descriptions of a contactor all describe a relay as well.

Weee. :D
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
Re: solid neutral

Here's my unofficial definition...

A device is a 'contactor' when it makes a resounding "KERR-CHUNK" when it pulls in.

A device is a 'relay' when it makes a faint "tick" when it pulls in.

Best I got...
 

pierre

Senior Member
Re: solid neutral

"Here's my unofficial definition...

A device is a 'contactor' when it makes a resounding "KERR-CHUNK" when it pulls in.

A device is a 'relay' when it makes a faint "tick" when it pulls in. "

MDS
That is my favorite one :D >
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Re: solid neutral

In my experience SN refers to the neutral bar in a panel board. I refer to it that way on my drawings when I use panelboards.

The difference between relays and contactors is not always obvious, nor is the difference between a general purpose contactor and a definite purpose contactor. Often it appears the main difference is in the listing.

Usually, it seems that relays are not really intended for power switching so much as for control, while contactors are intended for switching power circuits. But I often use contactors for both. When you buy them by the skid load, the small IEC contactors cost about the same as an ice cube relay with socket.
 

steve66

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Engineer
Re: solid neutral

Posted by Iwire:

I am not sure what separates all the terms, relays, contactors, magnetic motor starters etc.
I think about $200 separates the different terms.

So the "kerchunk" costs about $200 more than the "tick", with a "clunk" being somewhere in the middle.

Steve
 

steve66

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Engineer
Re: solid neutral

If I remember right, motor starters have replaceable parts and contacts. Most relays and definite purpose contactors would not.

Does that sound plausible??

Steve
 

mikesorel

Member
Re: solid neutral

Square D makes some of their motor starters by simply adding thermal overloads to a Definite Purpose Contactor. If it is a reversing type starter they would use 2 DPC's. (for across the line starters)
 

69boss302

Senior Member
Re: solid neutral

What really knocks your socks off is they use relay's to control contactors some times :roll:

Error A is misspelling, Error B is left out word, Error C for wrong word used?

[ June 28, 2005, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: 69boss302 ]
 

hurk27

Senior Member
Re: solid neutral

Back when I was first starting we were told to run a solid neutral all the way from the top of the service mast all the way to the neutral bar in the panel. Now the neutral wasn't a solid conductor as it was stranded but the intent was not to break the neutral across the single neutral lug in the meter. So could solid also mean continuous?
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
Re: solid neutral

Originally posted by hurk27:
Back when I was first starting we were told to run a solid neutral all the way from the top of the service mast all the way to the neutral bar in the panel.
Now that's a fine idea as far as installation methods go. I can't say I've ever seen one done that way, though.
 

physis

Senior Member
Re: solid neutral

From what I can gather SN has too many potential meanings, all of which are slang. Goofy terms should be defined in a legend or not used on drawings.
 

hurk27

Senior Member
Re: solid neutral

I should have mention that where the neutral passed through the neutral lug in the meter can a small section had the insulation removed and landed through the neutral lug in the meter but was not cut, it would just pass through the lug. Back then there was only one lug and it was a steel lug at that. Many that did try to put two neutrals under this lug found out that they would be back fixing it after it lost connection. :eek:
 

amptech

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
Re: solid neutral

If you look at the Siemens catalog for EQ loadcenters they are listed , for example, as 1 Phase, 3 Wire, SN. The closest thing to "solid neutral" in the NEC I could find was "solidly grounded" in 230.95. It defines solidly grounded as being directly connected without inserting any resistor or impedance device. I imagine the same would apply to a "solid neutral". No resistor, impedance device or means of switching open and closed.
 

tx2step

Senior Member
Re: solid neutral

Most of these terms are commonly used by (and come from) the various manufacturers -- kind of common equipment slang (some of it goes way back).


This is my understanding:

Relay -- usually pilot (control) duty. The number of poles (or contacts) doesn't enter into it.

Contactor -- functions like a relay, but controls much higher amperage (power). You can get contactors rated for hundreds of amps. Sometimes you have to use a control relay interposed between a control device and a contactor, just to handle the amperage of the coil of the contactor. Contactors can be electrically held, or mechanically held. Mechanically held are more expensive, and require a pulse of control power to either close or open the contacts (they usually have an "open" coil and a "close" coil). You can get lighting contactors with a dozen poles -- the number of poles doesn't enter into it.

Starter -- basically a contactor with overloads built-in, used for controlling and protecting motors. Sometimes the contacts are heavier and easily replaced, since there is more arcing with motor loads.


Solid Neutral:

In panels it doesn't really mean much -- just that it has a neutral bar in it. Some panels used to come without a neutral bar (unless you asked for it), but today most have them included.

It is commonly used concerning disconnect switches to denote that the switch has a neutral bar and it is not switched. (as opposed to, say, a 4 pole disconnect switch with the 4th pole switching the neutral as well as the 3 phases)

In ATS it means there is a neutral bar of some type and it is not switched. (as opposed to, say, a 4 pole ATS with the 4th pole switching the neutral as well as the 3 phases)


Solid Neutral -- this generic term has been around for a long time, and it almost always means that there is a neutral bar of some kind in the equipment and that that neutral is not switched or fused or otherwise capable of being opened or interrupted (i.e. a "solid" neutral).

[ July 01, 2005, 03:00 AM: Message edited by: tx2step ]
 
Re: solid neutral

Solid Neutral means neutral of the 208Y/120 volts source of the panelboard is solidly grounded.

Solidly grounded neutral of the source (transformer or Generator) is to prevent transient overvoltages from the system.

The solidly grounded neutral is bonded with the equipment ground.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Re: solid neutral

Wayne,
Back when I was first starting we were told to run a solid neutral all the way from the top of the service mast all the way to the neutral bar in the panel.
That was a requirement of Illinois Power, back when I started in the trade. It went away for us in the late 70s.
Don
 
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