Southern California Edison will no longer unlock meters for Electricians!

[Fulthrotl]

I am referring to service repairs like a main breaker. In the past it was normal and customary for a licensed contractor to call SCE to have the ring removed to safely perform the repairs. Now the customer needs to do so. They will ask questions to verify the account holder. They will also not lock the meter or reconnect after repairs are made without the customer calling.

In the cases I speak of the AHJ is not involved as this is not a service change. Main breakers and buss bar replacement are repairs which can be legitimately performed without permit. SCE will not even roll a repair truck by word of a licensed contractor any longer.

I may do work for landlords, these are not the SCE account holder. SCE will not roll the truck on the Landlords request either.

I think SCE is trying to protect someone but it is not doing so in the respect of safety.

is this new? about 2 weeks ago, i called SCE, and needed a lock ring pulled off a 200 amp 208 3p 4 wire commercial service.
i had the customers last bill in hand, as the customer spoke almost no english, vietnamese lady, i called the trouble line,
requested a lock ring removal, identified myself as the electrical contractor performing the work, and they removed it
within half a day.

i explained that i needed the meter pulled to be able to perform a safety inspection, and SCE had no problem with it.
called them back when the work was done, released the job, and they re sealed the meter.

the SCE lock ring keys can be had online... they are about $300 or so... the problem is, if you pull the meter, it goes
offline, and that rings a bell, and then you are going to get a line patrolman dispatched to see why it went offline, and when
they find you pulled the meter, they are gonna be a bit pissy about it..

 

[Strathead]

the customer needs to do so. They will ask questions to verify the account holder. They will also not lock the meter or reconnect after repairs are made without the customer calling.

In the cases I speak of the AHJ is not involved as this is not a service change. Main breakers and buss bar replacement are repairs which can be legitimately performed without permit. SCE will not even roll a repair truck by word of a licensed contractor any longer.

This work can also be legitimately done with a permit, especially if the building department expects one. Where I live you can't get a meter set period without an inspection. While this is bound to be an inconvenience to a customer, it does a lot more to protect equipment and personnel than many minor code issues do. I, for one applaud it. It is far easier to "blame" the building department for not being able to turn on an unsafe service than it is to explain to the customer why a little bit of caution tape isn't enough protection for a 2000A 480 volt open piece of gear. And all this talk about cutting locks is great. Don't cut them here or you may find that you aren't licensed to work in that County any more.

 

[kwired]

We cut them off all the time...10 in one service is my record :ashamed1:
Trick is using a grinder with a cut-off wheel. Cut 3/4 of the way thru pop apart with flat head.
Around here it can take up to a week to get the stupid things removed.

Recently had a guy pop in 9 meters that where 120v in a newly installed stack and turn the disco on....BOOM :slaphead:
POCO told us it would be a week before they could be replaced luckily we had some bypass meters laying around, poco was not happy and rightfully so.

That would never fly with customers around here. They are understanding if a storm takes power out for a week, but not for routine service connecting/disconnecting. They may even be somewhat understanding for scheduling a disconnect and possible delays, but not a reconnect after a scheduled disconnect. Only time they are not authorized to connect/reconnect a service here is for a new service though, it must at least have a permit or be an install that doesn't require a permit (we still have some of those).

I always call in for removal even if there is one of the old plain jane with utility seal. I was told these new smart meters report back if they have lost power or if removed.

SCE usually comes out in an emergency.

I think most cases those meters report information periodically, even if nothing more then just a ping to indicate they are still there. In the absence of receiving any information when expected it will automatically create a dispatch to have the problem checked out. In some instances you may be able to remove power for a short period and if you never interrupted an expected communication event they will never know.

This thread makes me thankful for NPPD and it's affiliates more and more every day.

Same here. And NPPD is my least favorite POCO that I deal with, yet some of the stories we hear from around the country makes them sound great.

 

[iwire]

Here, and the areas around me if an electrician has a meter pulled it will require a call from an inspector to have it put back. New service, old service whatever. This is not that much of a problem if you plan.

As far as the OPs issue about the power company refusing to pull a meter unless the account holder requests it. Yes a pain for an EC but really that is how it should be.

Picture a disgruntled ex of the homeowner calling to have service terminated just to bust balls.

 

[kwired]

Here, and the areas around me if an electrician has a meter pulled it will require a call from an inspector to have it put back. New service, old service whatever. This is not that much of a problem if you plan.

As far as the OPs issue about the power company refusing to pull a meter unless the account holder requests it. Yes a pain for an EC but really that is how it should be.

Picture a disgruntled ex of the homeowner calling to have service terminated just to bust balls.

How about giving the licensed electrician some authority to call (if anything for his own safety)? I see nothing wrong with that.

Just how often are they going to have something disconnected that they don't have permission from the owner/occupant? There will always be at least some circumstances where even the inspector could abuse this authority. We are supposed to be professionals yet some places they don't trust us to do anything without big brother watching every move you make No professional license and I am more understanding of the need of some of those rules.

 

[iwire]

How about giving the licensed electrician some authority to call (if anything for his own safety)? I see nothing wrong with that.

I see things wrong with that.

They have no legal authority to mess with someones electrical account.

You assume all EC are good and honest folks like yourself.

Yes it makes life harder for the EC but tough cookies.

I can see why the power company would be obligated to take that position. It is covering their rear from pissed off customers.

Just how often are they going to have something disconnected that they don't have permission from the owner/occupant? There will always be at least some circumstances where even the inspector could abuse this authority. We are supposed to be professionals yet some places they don't trust us to do anything without big brother watching every move you make No professional license and I am more understanding of the need of some of those rules.

That is a ridiculous rant from the guy that thinks taking pictures of a trench before backfilling is a major offense because the pictures could be faked.

 

[flatlander]

is this new? about 2 weeks ago, i called SCE, and needed a lock ring pulled off a 200 amp 208 3p 4 wire commercial service.
i had the customers last bill in hand, as the customer spoke almost no english, vietnamese lady, i called the trouble line,
requested a lock ring removal, identified myself as the electrical contractor performing the work, and they removed it
within half a day.

i explained that i needed the meter pulled to be able to perform a safety inspection, and SCE had no problem with

Apparently this is new. They will not even roll a truck. Also I was not implying that we call in a reconnect for a new or upgraded service. New services always require a permit and the signoff. We never call SCE in that case the inspector faxes in a release. I am talking about doing repairs like replacing a meter clip or lug. I ain't doing it live. Not reasonable thing to do. Homeowners are not always home these days as both spouses work. I get there to do service and find I need to have the. Meter unlocked. The I have to call the owner. The wait to find out if they will come or not , sometimes they won't because they don't think removal of the lock is necessary.

 

[kwired]

I see things wrong with that.

They have no legal authority to mess with someones electrical account.

You assume all EC are good and honest folks like yourself.

Yes it makes life harder for the EC but tough cookies.

I can see why the power company would be obligated to take that position. It is covering their rear from pissed off customers.




That is a ridiculous rant from the guy that thinks taking pictures of a trench before backfilling is a major offense because the pictures could be faked.

I just get tired of all the rants from everyone. They want protection from "this", but then complain about how it results with complications from "that". Somewhere we need some compromise as you can't make everyone happy.

Maybe it can be arranged for the account owner to give permission to the POCO to authorize a specific contractor to have disconnection/reconnection at the contractors will (or at least during a certain project time period).

Some cases an "owner" may be someone on the other side of the globe, certainly they can have someone that represents them in some fashion do this task.

 

[zbang]

Maybe it can be arranged for the account owner to give permission to the POCO to authorize a specific contractor to have disconnection/reconnection at the contractors will (or at least during a certain project time period).

The telecom world started doing that 30 years ago, just after the AT&T breakup. Because we now had 3rd partys ("interconnects") installing & maintaining business phone systems, the customer would sign a letter of agency allowing the interconnect to act on their behalf. (Part to this was simply to keep the technical jargon from being mangled by the customer.) Those letters were kept on file by the group that talked to the interconnects (who didn't talk directly to customers)... Yes, it could be a pain, but the customer could call the interconnect and say "we need 5 new outside lines" and the interconnect would call the phone co. and say "5 new ground-start lines at the tail of the XXX rotary" or something like that.

Takes me back, it does

 

[Sierrasparky]

I just get tired of all the rants from everyone. They want protection from "this", but then complain about how it results with complications from "that". Somewhere we need some compromise as you can't make everyone happy.

Maybe it can be arranged for the account owner to give permission to the POCO to authorize a specific contractor to have disconnection/reconnection at the contractors will (or at least during a certain project time period).

Some cases an "owner" may be someone on the other side of the globe, certainly they can have someone that represents them in some fashion do this task.

a second contact would be great if that would work. But you are going to have the entire POCO teritory have second and third contacts. I do not think the OP is speaking of known outages. I would bet this is about service work. That which you never know where it is gonna come from. You cannot anticipate this. :thumbsdown:

 

[iwire]

Just going to throw a wild idea out here.

Maybe, when the customer calls the EC for service the EC could mention to the customer to have their electrical account number handy as they may have to call the power company for a disconnect.

A considerate EC could even have the contact numbers and names available for the customer and if the EC finds they need the meter pulled instead of calling the power company they call the customer and have them make the call to the power company.


I know, its a crazy idea, it will never work, better to create a second data base of authorized ECs and hope the right EC gets called to the right home.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Just going to throw a wild idea out here.

Maybe, when the customer calls the EC for service the EC could mention to the customer to have their electrical account number handy as they may have to call the power company for a disconnect.

A considerate EC could even have the contact numbers and names available for the customer and if the EC finds they need the meter pulled instead of calling the power company they call the customer and have them make the call to the power company.


I know, its a crazy idea, it will never work, better to create a second data base of authorized ECs and hope the right EC gets called to the right home.

you errant madcap, you!

this will be interesting, as i have one commercial account that i have to pull meters for,
all the time. most of their calls involve it.

i'll bet a cheeseburger i can get the ring pulled using the same technique i used two weeks ago.
betcha, betcha, betcha......

and if i can't, then i will have the customer call, and SCE can interface with won hung lo,
and after that goes down in flames, won can hand me the phone back, and we can continue
onward.

SCE is cognizant of the fact that if the service isn't working, dey don' make no money.....

i have the customer take a picture of their last bill, and text or email it to me. then i
call before i show up. sometimes it's already been pulled by the time i get there.

but the OP just finished telling me in another thread that i can't do something i want
to do, and my experience is, i can. so, he gets the experience of not being able to do
anything, and i get the experience of being able to do those things.

it's just a choice, and the action that follows from that decision. i may even drive my
illegal motorcycle over to do it. psst. don't tell nobody.

 

[flatlander]

Just going to throw a wild idea out here.

Maybe, when the customer calls the EC for service the EC could mention to the customer to have their electrical account number handy as they may have to call the power company for a disconnect.

A considerate EC could even have the contact numbers and names available for the customer and if the EC finds they need the meter pulled instead of calling the power company they call the customer and have them make the call to the power company.

I don't think it will work. The ask for SS #.

I know, its a crazy idea, it will never work, better to create a second data base of authorized ECs and hope the right EC gets called to the right home.

you errant madcap, you!



i'll bet a cheeseburger i can get the ring pulled using the same technique i used two weeks ago.
betcha, betcha, betcha......

and if i can't, then i will have the customer call, and SCE can interface with won hung lo,
and after that goes down in flames, won can hand me the phone back, and we can continue
onward.

SCE is cognizant of the fact that if the service isn't working, dey don' make no money.....

i have the customer take a picture of their last bill, and text or email it to me. then i
call before i show up. sometimes it's already been pulled by the time i get there.

but the OP just finished telling me in another thread that i can't do something i want
to do, and my experience is, i can. so, he gets the experience of not being able to do
anything, and i get the experience of being able to do those things.

it's just a choice, and the action that follows from that decision. i may even drive my
illegal motorcycle over to do it. psst. don't tell nobody.

It may still work for commercial , This is residential.

 

[flatlander]

Oh and the call center asks for account I'd like SS# and BY
They have it locked down.

 

[kwired]

Well you big city guys have it different then I do. I have two POCO's that I regularly do work in their areas, and know the operations managers personally. If I need something in either of those POCO systems I don't call customer service, that just causes too much delay, I go straight to the operations managers, as I do have their mobile phone numbers. Doesn't matter if I have an emergency or something I want to schedule 10 days later. Now there are some POCO's that I sometimes deal with where you have to call customer service, then they have someone call you back- if you need to talk something technical - even if you already have that person's number, that is proper procedure:roll:

One time had a case where we were doing some upgrading on a three phase commercial service - with a POCO I am not around that much, but did know the local service rep in that town and usually called him when I needed something. Turns out he was not normally supposed to disconnect this particular service for such procedures without prior scheduling (a change I was not aware of at the time). He told them something was about at the point of burning up and we needed immediate shut down to repair - that made it OK to disconnect it, though he was reasonably available to do the task whether it was scheduled or not:roll:

 

[Greg1707]

outside disconnect

outside disconnect

Having the disconnect on the outside combined with the meter would solve a lot of these problems. How about a meter with a built in 150 or 200 amp main breaker? Why is this not SOP?
I find it frustrating, when there is a need to work in a panel that is crammed full of wires, that the only options are to call the POCO to schedule a meter pull for the following week or to just work on the panel live.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Speaking only for myself as I work in Calif.

Most if not all our meter cans are all in one combos mounted to the Exterior.
Most Calif Public utilities and or Fire dept. require a Fused Disco on the exterior.
So most of us install a all in one. Meter, Main and branch devices.
Personally I like a Meter/ Main and the branch breakers inside.

As far as the OP it appears that he needed the POCO to unlock the meter for repairs. Personally I would not replace a main without pulling the meter unless the breaker was a plug in and no dangling buss bars or wires to short out. My life is not worth it. So don't call me a pussy. :lol:

 

[kwired]

Having the disconnect on the outside combined with the meter would solve a lot of these problems. How about a meter with a built in 150 or 200 amp main breaker? Why is this not SOP?
I find it frustrating, when there is a need to work in a panel that is crammed full of wires, that the only options are to call the POCO to schedule a meter pull for the following week or to just work on the panel live.

A failed main breaker would still need a meter pull.

 

[Fulthrotl]

It may still work for commercial , This is residential.

got it.... the problem is you are doing residential.

i appreciate your pain.