Spa panel branch circuit extension

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Stubbie

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Anybody know if there is a code reference addressing extending a 20 amp branch circuit to other structures (specifically a shed) from a spa panel (hot tub outdoors) disconnect that has two slots for circuit breakers besides the gfci? I keep thinking I have seen an exception that prohibits doing any branch circuits to other than spa equipment. Reason for asking is the use of the spa panel will allow 75 feet to be erased for the run to the shed.

stubbie
 
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Stubbie said:
Anybody know if there is a code reference addressing extending a 20 amp branch circuit to other structures (specifically a shed) from a spa panel (hot tub outdoors) disconnect that has two slots for circuit breakers besides the gfci? I keep thinking I have seen an exception that prohibits doing any branch circuits to other than spa equipment. Reason for asking is the use of the spa panel will allow 75 feet to be erased for the run to the shed.

stubbie
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If I understand your question correctly, then yes, there are a few code references.

Starting out with 680.42. This states for an outdoor installation of a Spa or Hot Tub you must comply with Parts I and II of article 680 that would otherwise apply to pools installed outdoors.

Then progress to 680.25 (B) (2), which states you can use the feeder to a separate building (in this case the shed) to also supply swimming pool equipment branch circuits, if you follow the grounding requirements also listed in 680.25 (B) (2).

I know a Spa is not a pool, but the interpretation from 680.42 is that you would otherwise treat the Spa installation as a pool installed outdoors. SOME JURISDICTIONS MAY NOT USE THAT SAME INTERPRETATION.

Now, you are wanting to use a 20 amp branch circuit from the Spa panel to the shed. Obviously that could not be the feeder that is supplying the spa panel, so it would not meet the requirements. You need to figure out how to continue the original feeder (from the power source to the spa panel) on to the shed. Perhaps a splice in the spa panel, tapping to feed the spa panel and continuing to the shed and setting a 2-space disco in the shed.

If that is clear as mud, I have done my job and it's time to mosey on into the sunset for this day...........:grin: .
 
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23, I'm not following. As I understand Roger's original post, the spa/pool components of this installation are completed and existing, and he is looking to install an additional branch circuit using that spa panelboard.

I see no prohibition requiring a spa/pool panelboard to solely supply spa/pool-related equipment - is there one?
 
georgestolz said:
23, I'm not following. As I understand Roger's original post, the spa/pool components of this installation are completed and existing, and he is looking to install an additional branch circuit using that spa panelboard.

I see no prohibition requiring a spa/pool panelboard to solely supply spa/pool-related equipment - is there one?
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WELL ! If your going to get picky and just stick to the facts of the OP, then I will have to admit I misread the post. :grin: NO WAIT! I CAN'T DO THAT! THIS IS AMERICA - I CANNOT ADMIT I AM WRONG! THERE HAS TO BE SOMEONE ELSE TO BLAME - AND SUE!!!

3 of my 5 personalities thought they understood the question and I always go with the majority of voices in my head.........

This is my official, municipality-approved verbal response when I have made a mistake --- "You look different - have you lost weight?"

Thanks for the wake up !
 
inspector23 said:
WELL ! If your going to get picky and just stick to the facts of the OP, then I will have to admit I misread the post. :grin: NO WAIT! I CAN'T DO THAT! THIS IS AMERICA - I CANNOT ADMIT I AM WRONG! THERE HAS TO BE SOMEONE ELSE TO BLAME - AND SUE!!!

3 of my 5 personalities thought they understood the question and I always go with the majority of voices in my head.........
This is my official, municipality-approved verbal response when I have made a mistake --- "You look different - have you lost weight?"

Thanks for the wake up !
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That is just like me on a good day!!!:grin: :grin: :grin:
 
I would sure like to see the three of you guys working the same job site. that would be some free entertainment for sure. I'm just a farm boy and a feeder to me is for cows.
Ok, to clarify.... I want to add a breaker in an existing spa panel and run a 20 amp branch circuit underground to a shed. The customer just wants a few lights and receptacles so he can see what the heck he is doing when the sun goes down. So I think George has the correct understanding with iwire a close second. I should have stated that I have been through 680 and saw no exception or article section that prohibits the extension of a branch circuit to another structure from a spa disconnect.
Now the customer wants UF direct burial but i don't believe I can run UF from the spa panel per 680 where pretty much anything leaving that panel must have an insulated ground wire of 12 awg minimum. So my recommendations are 20 amp gfci at the panel, 12 awg thwn underground about 45 feet in pvc to the shed. That should be compliant in my opinion.

Comments appreciated.

Stubbie
 
I "think" it's plenty legal. I just figure the spa sub-panel, like a Cutler-Hammer CH250SPA, is just a plain jane small sub-panel that happens to also have a 2-pole 50A GFCI breaker installed too. I don't care if it's feeding a spa, an oven, or what. It's just a sub-panel. Feed whatever you feel like with the two spaces you have left. I've never seen anything in 680 telling me I can't supply power to anything I want from a Jandy or GoldLine pool controller/panel, or with any other panel that happens to be supplying pool equipment.
 
Yep, thats the plan, switch right inside the door to the shed. My concern was the spa panel. Thanks for the heads up though.

Stubbie
 
Hmmm... I see your point George. Since I'm not running to pool equipment the required insulated ground may not be an issue. My thinking was the feeder to the spa panel has an insulated ground (my part time employer put this spa in about a year ago) , the feed from the disconnect to the control panel has to have a insulated ground sooooooo looking past the fact this is a spa panel and I can treat it as just a sub-panel that serves as the disconnect for the spa....
By George!! , I am forced to agree uf should be fine.

BTW this is a permitted installation per building codes for the shed (new construction). So we will see what the inspector has to offer. My employer has said from the git go.... uf is ok....just like to get a little research in before hand so my ducks are all in a row. Sometimes what seems simple is not so simple.


Stubbie
 
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Update....inspector says uf is just dandy and no gfci necessary (which I figured)... just thought it was a good safety upgrade..boss said I told you so... customer is happy but confused.

Stubbie
 
Stubbie said:
boss said I told you so... customer is happy but confused.
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Well, then I guess you learned the importance of having sidebars with the boss and not letting the customer into the discussion, without a lot of "...well, I'm not sure, but..." ;)
 
How true, about the time I think I know it all I find out it's really the boss that knows it all.....after all it " pays " to let the boss be right.

Stubbie
 
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