Spa wiring methods

[Brownetown]

Can you use UF wire for an outdoor above ground hot tub. I see that for wiring methods it says that it is okay but for feeder wire. It has to be in conduit. If I stay 5’ away and run UF cable to my spa disconnect would that be acceptable? 50 amp thinking using 6/3 UF to disconnect then a ground as well to S.p.A. disconnect

 

[LarryFine]

Yes, you can. I would probably use individual copper wires in flex from the disco to the hot tub.

 

[Brownetown]

Larryfin. Thanks for getting back to me. What I was thinking of UF 6/3 to S.p.A. disconnect from my outside panel. Then installing ground rod with #6 to S.p.A. disconnect as well then seal tight from disconnect to hot tub. Anything else I should be thinking about?

 

[LarryFine]

Anything else I should be thinking about?

If the entire run is outdoors, consider PVC and conduit and individual wires for the whole thing. Some of the reasons are, in no particular order:

UF is a pain to pull in PVC, probably the most difficult of any wire pull.
You're supposed to size conduit as if the cable's width is its diameter.
Individual wires should cost less, plus cost saving with smaller conduit.

Another cable option from the panel to the disco is SER, also good if you're feeding a sub-panel rather than a single disconnect. All things considered, I'd go for the PVC with copper conductors.

I think of UF as the best cable to use when there will be no conduit, either exposed (but protected from damage) or underground. Otherwise, it's basically just a pain-to-use variation of NM cable.

 

[qcroanoke]

Not a pro on hot tubs but I dont think you need a ground rod.
Larry? Your input here?

 

[Brownetown]

I wasn’t planing on using conduit from panel to disco. That was my main concern if the UF would be acceptable. If I was gonna use conduit I would pull individual copper.

 

[LarryFine]

Not a pro on hot tubs but I dont think you need a ground rod.
Larry? Your input here?

For a disco, no; it's just part of the branch circuit in that regard.

For a sub-panel, no if attached to the house; yes if on another "structure."

 

[LarryFine]

I wasn’t planing on using conduit from panel to disco. That was my main concern if the UF would be acceptable. If I was gonna use conduit I would pull individual copper.

Yes, as long as not subject to damage, UF is okay.

 

[Brownetown]

Awesome thanks Larryfine

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Can you use UF wire for an outdoor above ground hot tub. I see that for wiring methods it says that it is okay but for feeder wire. It has to be in conduit. If I stay 5’ away and run UF cable to my spa disconnect would that be acceptable? 50 amp thinking using 6/3 UF to disconnect then a ground as well to S.p.A. disconnect

If you are running uf cable from an outdoor panel to a spa disconnect then you cannot use UF if the wiring is outdoors. Maybe I am incorrectly interpreting what you are doing

680.11 Underground Wiring.

Underground wiring shall comply with 680.11(A) and (B).
(A) Underground Wiring.

Underground wiring within 1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally from the inside wall of the pool shall be permitted. The following wiring methods shall be considered suitable for the conditions in these locations provided they are installed complete between outlets, junctions, or splicing points:

• (1)
  Rigid metal conduit
• (2)
  Intermediate metal conduit
• (3)
  Rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit
• (4)
  Reinforced thermosetting resin conduit
• (5)
  Jacketed Type MC cable that is listed for burial use
• (6)
  Liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit listed for direct burial use
• (7)
  Liquidtight flexible metal conduit listed for direct burial use

 

[infinity]

If you didn't want to run conduit just use PVC jacketed MC cable.

 

[Brownetown]

If you are running uf cable from an outdoor panel to a spa disconnect then you cannot use UF if the wiring is outdoors. Maybe I am incorrectly interpreting what you are doing

It says as long as I’m 5’ horizontal correct?

 

[kwired]

Not a pro on hot tubs but I dont think you need a ground rod.
Larry? Your input here?

a feeder to a separate structure however needs a grounding electrode at the separate structure.

a single branch circuit to a separate structure does not.

 

[letgomywago]

If you are running uf cable from an outdoor panel to a spa disconnect then you cannot use UF if the wiring is outdoors. Maybe I am incorrectly interpreting what you are doing

Spa disconnect should be 5ft away from the tub anyway. Only way it would be there would be if underground or along the side of the tub for some reason. If so just put it into a sleave for that portion

 

[Little Bill]

Spa disconnect should be 5ft away from the tub anyway. Only way it would be there would be if underground or along the side of the tub for some reason. If so just put it into a sleave for that portion

I think Dennis was alluding to the bare EGC in UF.

 

[letgomywago]

I think Dennis was alluding to the bare EGC in UF.

It wouldn't need that. I know its divided the forum before but the insulated EGC is only required for pool feeders not packaged spas and also required for the wiring that goes from the disconnect to the spa. Any chapter 3 wiring method is allowed to the disconnect of a packaged spa.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Spa disconnect should be 5ft away from the tub anyway. Only way it would be there would be if underground or along the side of the tub for some reason. If so just put it into a sleave for that portion

I think we know how to make it right. My point was that UF is not allowed I believe because it doesn't have enough protection.

It wouldn't need that. I know its divided the forum before but the insulated EGC is only required for pool feeders not packaged spas and also required for the wiring that goes from the disconnect to the spa. Any chapter 3 wiring method is allowed to the disconnect of a packaged spa.

I think you might look at 680.40

680.40 General
Electrical installations at spas and hot tubs shall comply with the provisions of Part I and Part IV of this article.

 

[letgomywago]

I think we know how to make it right. My point was that UF is not allowed I believe because it doesn't have enough protection.



I think you might look at 680.40

Yes but the insulated part can be in a cable sheath still.
And ya I should've prefaced dwelling units too since I made a blanket statement

 

[AC\DC]

If you are running uf cable from an outdoor panel to a spa disconnect then you cannot use UF if the wiring is outdoors. Maybe I am incorrectly interpreting what you are doing

That's from spa disconnect to spa
Not panel to spa disconnect.
You can direct bury uf to spa disconnect. And then run pipe from spa disconnect to spa

Atleast from the code section you posted.
If you got a trench up just spend the extra and use pipe lol.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

That's from spa disconnect to spa
Not panel to spa disconnect.
You can direct bury uf to spa disconnect. And then run pipe from spa disconnect to spa

Atleast from the code section you posted.
If you got a trench up just spend the extra and use pipe lol.

What about this. Wet location is underground and the run from panel to spa disconnect is a feeder. Insulated copper conductor means it has insulation around it. I don't know if the pour around the UF would be considered insulated in the eyes of the NEC

IMO, the wiring method mentioned in 680.11 includes the feeder. It doesn't say just branch circuits but it doesn't say feeder either

680.11 Underground Wiring.

Underground wiring shall comply with 680.11(A) and (B).
(A) Underground Wiring.

Underground wiring within 1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally from the inside wall of the pool shall be permitted. The following wiring methods shall be considered suitable for the conditions in these locations provided they are installed complete between outlets, junctions, or splicing points:

680.7 Grounding and Bonding.

(A) Feeders and Branch Circuits.
Feeders and branch circuits installed in a corrosive environment or wet location shall contain an EGC that is an insulated copper conductor sized in accordance with Table 250.122, but not smaller than 12 AWG.