Spanish invasion

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mopowr steve

mopowr steve

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Electrical contractor
So I go check out a small remodel job and the customers have some lighting fixtures setting there to be installed, right away I notice some small porcelain terminal block with what almost look to be speaker wire running to the sockets, it lacks mounting bracket and grounding wire and even the sockets look a little different.
So I look for a listing, it has a CE listing but it's for 220 volts.
Then I see where it's from ......Spain

Now correct me if I'm wrong but there is no way I can install these in the US right? Unless Spain offers a conversion kit with bracket, EGC, 120v label, etc?

Ok so now you U.K. Guys, a couple questions.
1- do you use junction boxes to attach your lighting fixtures to?
2- do you run an earthing wire or equipment ground wire to your fixtures?
3- when doing 3-way switching are you only switching 1 of the hot leads?
 
First and foremost, C-E is not a US NRTL (Nationally Recognized Testing Lab, such as UL, ETL, etc)
and it may be a violation in your area to install the fixture.
 
mopowr steve said:
So I look for a listing, it has a CE listing but it's for 220 volts.


Ok so now you U.K. Guys, a couple questions.

3- when doing 3-way switching are you only switching 1 of the hot leads?
Click to expand...

I'm not from the UK. But you do know that with European power there is only one hot lead for their 220-230V power?

Just because a ight fixture is rated for 220V doesn't mean it needs connected to 220V. If you connect a 220V lamp up to 120V you will just get 1/2 the Wattage and it will last a long time. Think of it as pre-dimming. Or swap the sockets out for 120V lamps.
 
growler said:
I'm not from the UK. But you do know that with European power there is only one hot lead for their 220-230V power?

Just because a ight fixture is rated for 220V doesn't mean it needs connected to 220V. If you connect a 220V lamp up to 120V you will just get 1/2 the Wattage and it will last a long time. Think of it as pre-dimming. Or swap the sockets out for 120V lamps.
Click to expand...

The wattage varies with the square of the voltage.
 
growler said:
I'm not from the UK. But you do know that with European power there is only one hot lead for their 220-230V power?

Just because a ight fixture is rated for 220V doesn't mean it needs connected to 220V. If you connect a 220V lamp up to 120V you will just get 1/2 the Wattage and it will last a long time. Think of it as pre-dimming. Or swap the sockets out for 120V lamps.
Click to expand...

dkidd said:
The wattage varies with the square of the voltage.
Click to expand...
For a resistive load. For resistive load, if you supply it with half rated volts you get one quarter of watts as you would get at full rated voltage. You don't necessarily get 1/4 rated lumens out of an incandescent lamp in such a situation though.

Non linear driven lighting technologies- depends on the design of the ballast/driver some may still work some won't work at all.
 
171103-1015 EDT

An incandescent light bulb is not a constant resistance vs applied voltage. A 120 V 100 W bulb is around 10 ohms at 0 V and room temperature. About 140 ohms at 120 V.

.
 
mopowr steve said:
... it lacks mounting bracket and grounding wire...
Click to expand...

Is it possible that a luminaire might not need a EGC if it contains no conductive parts outside of the conductors and lamp socket? Like plastic smoke detectors commonly are wired?

Probably doesn't apply to your situation, but it's a tangent thought.
 
MAC702 said:
Is it possible that a luminaire might not need a EGC if it contains no conductive parts outside of the conductors and lamp socket? Like plastic smoke detectors commonly are wired?

Probably doesn't apply to your situation, but it's a tangent thought.
Click to expand...

That would be acceptable, IF the fixture was NRTL listed and labeled as "double insulated". But as mentioned, a CE label means doodley squat here. It barely means anything in the EU either, mostly just that it doesn't emit much EMI/RFI. Another case of people shopping for electrically powered devices over the Internet without thinking of the consequences of trying to hook it up here.
 
mopowr steve said:
So I go check out a small remodel job and the customers have some lighting fixtures setting there to be installed, right away I notice some small porcelain terminal block with what almost look to be speaker wire running to the sockets, it lacks mounting bracket and grounding wire and even the sockets look a little different.
So I look for a listing, it has a CE listing but it's for 220 volts.
Then I see where it's from ......Spain

Now correct me if I'm wrong but there is no way I can install these in the US right? Unless Spain offers a conversion kit with bracket, EGC, 120v label, etc?

Ok so now you U.K. Guys, a couple questions.
1- do you use junction boxes to attach your lighting fixtures to?
2- do you run an earthing wire or equipment ground wire to your fixtures?
3- when doing 3-way switching are you only switching 1 of the hot leads?
Click to expand...

Not really my area but:
1 - not as a rule
2 - probably would use flat twin and earth L, N, E)
3 - there is only one hot lead

We have live (brown), neutral (blue), and earth (yellow/green).
Voltage is nominally 230V, 50Hz for single phase.
 
These fixtures did not come with a mounting bracket or a EGC attached to the fixture and it is all metal (reminds me of a Devo hat, remember them? just painted black and gold up-side-down). The internal wire has a thin clear insulation (which reminds me of speaker wire) which terminates to a porcelain set screw type of terminal block inside of the fixture, no indication to determine polarity, outside of doing a continuity check.

and I was not aware that only one line to (grounded/neutral?)was at 220 volts over the pond. Thanks for the info.
now, how many wires make up a service over there? Do you have two 220v lines or just one?
I was under the impression that there was no neutral, just line to line loads.

Interesting enough that the sockets ,though slightly different design, have the same thread on the shell as our Edison base 120v bulb and it does screw in.
 
Distribution there is all 3 phase 400V 4W where the Line to Neutral voltage is 230V. That's why small appliances, lighting etc. are all rated 230V. That's actually officially now a nominal level. The voltages are actually different in different countries; 380, 400 or 415V. But about 10 years ago or so the EU was "Normalized" to 400Y230V, at least on paper. But still, each country's utilities put out what they always put out, and Spain was always 380Y220.
 
The typical residential service is single ended 220/230 to ground, one hot wire in the service, unless two out of three or three phase power is supplied.
Generally fed from the single phase or wye secondary in the distribution transformer.
 
GoldDigger said:
The typical residential service is single ended 220/230 to ground, one hot wire in the service, unless two out of three or three phase power is supplied.
Generally fed from the single phase or wye secondary in the distribution transformer.
Click to expand...
Correct.
Our local distribution transformer is 11kV/400V Dyn11. We, as almost everybody does, get phase to neutral 230V nominal.
 
GoldDigger said:
The typical residential service is single ended 220/230 to ground, one hot wire in the service, unless two out of three or three phase power is supplied.
Generally fed from the single phase or wye secondary in the distribution transformer.
Click to expand...


In Germany, they use 400V 3 phase for domestic electric ranges.
 
mbrooke said:
In Germany, in the UK my understanding is that they are usually single phase.
Click to expand...
For domestic in UK, that is overwhelming the case although one of my service guys has come across a few mansions with a three phase service.
 
mbrooke said:
Mainland Europe likes to be different. :p
Click to expand...


On another computer have a photo I took in Germany in 2006 of masts & weatherheads on houses & 4 conductors went from mast to mast, no poles on the street to have a drop to each house, the roofs were tile, so reroofs would not be as common as it would be with comp roofs here, but the OH wires would be in the way if the roof was replaced, could be a bit of fun if one of the homes caught fire.
 
norcal said:
On another computer have a photo I took in Germany in 2006 of masts & weatherheads on houses & 4 conductors went from mast to mast, no poles on the street to have a drop to each house, the roofs were tile, so reroofs would not be as common as it would be with comp roofs here, but the OH wires would be in the way if the roof was replaced, could be a bit of fun if one of the homes caught fire.
Click to expand...



I'd imagine.
 
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