Spare capacity in panelboards

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Re: Spare capacity in panelboards

We all agree that we do need some spare spaces but it's not in the code. Like iwire said, how much is enough. An open ended question with no anwsers. The only thing we can do is to plan the best that we can for furture circuits. We really don't know even if we leave room for more circuits in the panel, if that will be enough. If they need more then they can call us and we'll fix them right up with more circuits.
Bye now,
Jim
 
Re: Spare capacity in panelboards

Was discussing Mike Holt forum,with all inspectors in classroom.Asked if anyone in class,uses the Mike Holt forum..Reply was no..Told them about a post, where one gentleman had (three 200 ampere pnls)where he he?made the mistake of running all his branch circuits to the three panels,into one (ten foot wireway)above panels,then to nipples leaving wireway to said panels, and in the derating of nothing..

When trying to think on my feet to help the man in forum,asked gentleman if he had MORE than 30 current carrying conductors,going to each load center.

Gentleman in post replied,"yes one would assume panels are "loaded" with branch circuits to the max".

When I stated this conversation,then article and section was pointed out to me,by the Instructor/inspector,and other Inspectors in classroom,in telling me it was in fact a violation.

To be honest with you I didn't even know it existed, but its marked in my book now and in the knowing today just where to reference in book.Thus in my reply,on where it was...

Like most of us,I didn't even know it was there and the interpretation of.And to my knowledge, have not talked to anyone who had been busted in this Article/Section of..

I sorry guys,didn't get into leanthy discussion on matter,being I was so suprised in the article/section..And also fact of, this class move pretty darn fast.

These classes,are just not set up for debating.We moved along, because of amount of material to cover and also fact of, me not being the only "one student" in class.

But every inspector in the classroom knew about it,and commenting in the violation of...Not in the derating factor,but in (90.8) and the new installation of panels,and in being maxed out with circuit branch on installation.

So take it for what its worth.. Today in forum,it was implied again..

I do agree further interpretation is needed,I just can't offer one up further..sorry gang..


dillon
 
Re: Spare capacity in panelboards

Dillion I'm not asking you to take a stand. Just read 90.5 and apply it to 90.7 and you will see where we are coming from. They can't just take one section of the NEC without applying the requirments of others sections. If this was done then allot of whats in the NEC would not work. :D
 
Re: Spare capacity in panelboards

And this is one if the things I like about the Indiana Electrical Code.

Sec. 8. Section 90.8 is deleted in its entirety without substitution. (Fire Prevention and Building Safety Commission: 675 IAC 17-1.6-8; filed Aug 14, 2002, 4:20 p.m.: 26 IR 16)

They take it completely out of the range of someone's aggressive interpretation. :D
 
Re: Spare capacity in panelboards

getting a little bewildered on this issue. Get a interpretation from NFPA if you choose.And in all due respect to Chief Moderator,your interpretation doesn't make it so either sir.
Click to expand...
Show me the command or enforcable language in the code section. What are the action words in that section that require me to do anything? Without a command, there is no rule and no possible violation. If I was ever cited based on this code section, we'd be in court the next day and I would be changing the AHJ with malicious prosecution.
Don
 
Re: Spare capacity in panelboards

Show me the command or enforcable language in the code section. What are the action words in that section that require me to do anything? Without a command, there is no rule and no possible violation. If I was ever cited based on this code section, we'd be in court the next day and I would be changing the AHJ with malicious prosecution.
Don
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Don,

I agree with you and so does everyone else who's posted on this thread. (With one exception). The requirement simply is not there. I would go one step further to say the wording "and additional spaces allow for future increases" doesn't even apply to panelboards. They are not mentioned anywhere in this section. I would argue that the additional spaces are just that, physical spaces where future expansion can take place, like a spot for new panelboards etc.

[ May 23, 2005, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: infinity ]
 
Re: Spare capacity in panelboards

Originally posted by dillon3c:
Gentlemen,
Again I didn't write it,and I'm not defending it.But this is exactly what was explained to me.
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dillon did the instructor tell you how many spaces need to be left free?

How much space is 'ample' in regards to space left in raceways?

How about how many 'spare' raceways, one two, a dozen?

As Wayne has pointed out 90.8 does not contain the word 'shall' which is the command word of the NEC.

The fact that 90.8 was explained to you this way in a 'inspector class' does not in itself make it a fact.

Don't believe what any of us or your instructor tells you. ;)
 
Re: Spare capacity in panelboards

[/QUOTE]Any chance Mike was the instructor? ;) [/QB][/QUOTE]

No iwire,been to many of these classes within the state,this class was not mike's class.

edited..

[ May 24, 2005, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: dillon3c ]
 
Re: Spare capacity in panelboards

Originally posted by sadegh:
Does NEC require "spare" capacity in panelboards?
I believe it is a good design practice, not a CODE issue, but an electrical inspector claims it is code requirement, I can not find it anywhere in code.
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sadegh,
Just got conformation on this subject from the Chief Electrical Inspector of my area, via the E-Mail this morning.

This gentleman sit on a few committies in the State of N.Carolina..

In respect of this gentleman,I'll not include a name..

Quote to requirement of,90.8 in his words:
:-NO-..I don't think anybody deals with this on a consistent basis. I could be wrong however,this section appears to be only a statement and does not really have any enforceable language, in my opinion...
 
Re: Spare capacity in panelboards

Dillon,

We know that you've said that you weren't taking any position on this subject, but do you still feel that way?
 
Re: Spare capacity in panelboards

infinity sir,
(grin'in)--thinking for a minute, -LOL..

-NO-..I do agree with the other posters in this thread..


..and thank you for asking me sir.. ;)
 
Re: Spare capacity in panelboards

"tipp'in my hat" to the Licensed Professional Electrician in Colorado.....
 
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