SPD to protect GFCIs

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don_resqcapt19 said:
From the first draft report for the 2020 code.

From the substantiation for the PI that resulted in 230.67.
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Notice the word, "insurance companies" in this argument, (small print). They are driving this and the manufactures are lapping it up. But, the manufacturers are going to have a real hard time with Green and Fazio lawyers when this thing fails and the house burns down.

Morgan and Morgan, "For the People" ring loud in this one.
 
Insurance companies aren't smart enough to think this up on their own. If there weren't manufacturers pushing their products insurance companies wouldn't have a clue. Who is a big manufacturer of surge protection devices? Leviton, who is also a big producer of AFCI devices, so they know the ropes.

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
Insurance companies aren't smart enough to think this up on their own. If there weren't manufacturers pushing their products insurance companies wouldn't have a clue. Who is a big manufacturer of surge protection devices? Leviton, who is also a big producer of AFCI devices, so they know the ropes.

-Hal
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This sounds like what came first, the chicken or the egg.
 
The manufacturers. When the insurance companies found out that they can limit their liability when there is a fire and the smokes didn't go off and the building didn't have surge protection they jumped on it.

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
The manufacturers. When the insurance companies found out that they can limit their liability when there is a fire and the smokes didn't go off and the building didn't have surge protection they jumped on it.

-Hal
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Surge is a big rip off. It will take code enforcement to get the public to buy.

Oh well, just more for the contractor to mark up for profit.
 
hbiss said:
Here we go again! Design the damn devices properly so they are resistant to damage from surges or indicate when they are damaged, don't create another "golden egg" for manufacturers.

-Hal
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The UL product standard was already changed to increase the amount of surge protection within the GFCI itself, but there is limited space in the device. Not sure anything more can be done with the device itself.
 
When a MOV (metal oxide varistor) is near end of life (from many small surge strikes over span of time), it would conduct at lower and lower voltage until it can even conduct with regular voltage say 120v (from the MCOV of 150v), then it would go into thermal runaway (burn) because of the continuous conduction. Can anyone give example of any 120v GFCI receptacle with burnt MOV. Doesn't it burn the entire receptacle since the housing is plastic?
 
I once had someone from the School Board come up to me as we were finishing a new School. The Fire panel was at the main entrance. They asked me, what if a bus blasted through the front doors and destroyed the Fire alarm panel. Would the kids be safe and should we have a back up to the main fire alarm panel? (I wish I had a picture of a dog cocking head right now)


Ok, this thread of MOV's in GFI's and new code rules reminds me of that BC headache.


A couple of things to remember;

1) If you're a plumber, don't chew your fingernails.

2) A Chicken eats with his pecker

3) DO NOT COIL those wires coming from the SPD before you make them up at the breaker...

The class is now in recess!
 
Well, the local surge protectors we put in for fridges and computers and such seem to do something. Area of Jamaica I deal with has problem with lightning strikes, equipment problems from surges and low voltage.. transformer problems, etc. the people who have put the surge protectors on the fridge, tv, and the computers up here seem to have reduced their losses... my nephew was going through a tv a year but has kept his last one for four years... and fridge not giving problems either.. his neighbor on second fridge in same period of time.
But, it could also be the work I did checking all the outlet connections, replacing two wires...lol.

who can tell for sure?
 
Adamjamma said:
Well, the local surge protectors we put in for fridges and computers and such seem to do something. Area of Jamaica I deal with has problem with lightning strikes, equipment problems from surges and low voltage.. transformer problems, etc. the people who have put the surge protectors on the fridge, tv, and the computers up here seem to have reduced their losses... my nephew was going through a tv a year but has kept his last one for four years... and fridge not giving problems either.. his neighbor on second fridge in same period of time.
But, it could also be the work I did checking all the outlet connections, replacing two wires...lol.

who can tell for sure?
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Yes, I agree. How do you know they are working, or already have done their job. You say, "seem" to work.

Yes, that is all we have here. And now, the homeowner is going to have to pay for it.

I see more of a problem when we have lighting strikes and brownout occurs. That scares me more thinking of my electronic equipment and A/C
 
well, in Jamaica we get loads of low voltage problems due to illegal connections and tree falls during storms... that lean on the lines but do not break them. Banana and Plaintain plants are really big on doing this. But, the surge protectors seem to be doing something, or we have just been lucky at the couple of houses that are using them on my hill...
Hard to tell but the one shop sold out of the surge protectors after the hurricane two years ago, then complained about the cost of the newer shipment.
 
Adamjamma said:
well, in Jamaica we get loads of low voltage problems due to illegal connections and tree falls during storms... that lean on the lines but do not break them. Banana and Plaintain plants are really big on doing this. But, the surge protectors seem to be doing something, or we have just been lucky at the couple of houses that are using them on my hill...
Hard to tell but the one shop sold out of the surge protectors after the hurricane two years ago, then complained about the cost of the newer shipment.
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It sounds more like brownouts ( low voltage) than lightning surges...


Florida has tropical weather like you guys. We can have some violent storms here, too.
 
we get both. Especially on the hill where my mother in law lives... transformer right beside Antenna Tower for phones... loads of lightning strikes sometimes...
Everyone above the transformer has had loads of problems with equipment, local power has replaced transformer several times over years... searches every few months for illegal connections...lol...

But, out of thirty homes, seven installed surge protectors, and those seven have reduced the replacement problems of tv and fridge... and microwaves... one only put surge on tv originally, lost a fridge and a microwave, so put them on both... neighbor still had none, the first guy still using same fridge and such now, his neighbor just bought surge protectors after telling all of us they were useless toys...he has bought four fridges in four years and three tvs...
 
Adamjamma said:
we get both. Especially on the hill where my mother in law lives... transformer right beside Antenna Tower for phones... loads of lightning strikes sometimes...
Everyone above the transformer has had loads of problems with equipment, local power has replaced transformer several times over years... searches every few months for illegal connections...lol...

But, out of thirty homes, seven installed surge protectors, and those seven have reduced the replacement problems of tv and fridge... and microwaves... one only put surge on tv originally, lost a fridge and a microwave, so put them on both... neighbor still had none, the first guy still using same fridge and such now, his neighbor just bought surge protectors after telling all of us they were useless toys...he has bought four fridges in four years and three tvs...
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Thinking about this as I read your post;

Brownouts are a problem. Surge is a problem. Since you are in a unique area that has a higher frequency of this problem...

We could now have an App that is tied to the internet and the weather authorities. Once the app sees a certain weather pattern, it could shut off the appliances during these episodes.

I would have more faith turning the appliances completely off during these conditions, as opposed to hoping SPD's will protect me.

The technology is here and could be installed at a reasonable price.
 
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