Specifications

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L

lady sparks lover

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I was on the job site, and the EC told me he didn't know where to mount the Horn Strobes. Well I told him, the height is in the spec.. He told me, nobody reads specs, and that he doesn't even have a copy. He just goes by the code. :)

[ August 03, 2005, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: lady sparks lover ]
 
Re: Specifications

Here's what I tell my wife:
Why should I read the instructions? All else has not yet failed.
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I'll not repeat her reply. :D


Here's what I tell Contractors who only read the plans:
The specs are part of the contract. Your request for a Change Order is disapproved.
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OK, so I am guilty of holding a double standard. :p

[ August 03, 2005, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: charlie b ]
 
Re: Specifications

Patricia, absolutely.

I have found some GC's lately are reluctant to let me have a full set, they only want me to have section 16000, (17000 in some cases) it's obvious that they don't want the sub contractors knowing what the other sections require and spell out to be by others.

I do mostly AIA formatted jobs so the specs are clearly part of the contract documents, and until they are satisfied, I don't get my final payment or retainage.

This is not saying exceptions may be taken to parts of the contract documents in some situations, but the design team and owner would be made aware of it.

If the EC knew of a code conflict I would think he would follow a paper trail in the way of an RFI, or if the schedule could not wait for this process this contractor could proceed but have a valid reason as to why he had to modify the design.

If ADA rules apply, visual alarms are pretty well etched in stone as far as placement.

4.28.3* Visual Alarms.

Visual alarm signal appliances shall be integrated into the building or facility alarm system. If single station audible alarms are provided then single station visual alarm signals shall be provided. Visual alarm signals shall have the following minimum photometric and location features:

(1) The lamp shall be a xenon strobe type or equivalent.

(2) The color shall be clear or nominal white (i.e., unfiltered or clear filtered white light).

(3) The maximum pulse duration shall be two-tenths of one second (0.2 sec) with a maximum duty cycle of 40 percent. The pulse duration is defined as the time interval between initial and final points of 10 percent of maximum signal.

(4) The intensity shall be a minimum of 75 candela.

(5) The flash rate shall be a minimum of 1 Hz and a maximum of 3 Hz.

(6) The appliance shall be placed 80 in (2030 mm) above the highest floor level within the space or 6 in (152 mm) below the ceiling, whichever is lower.

(7) In general, no place in any room or space required to have a visual signal appliance shall be more than 50 ft (15 m) from the signal (in the horizontal plane). In large rooms and spaces exceeding 100 ft (30 m) across, without obstructions 6 ft (2 m) above the finish floor, such as auditoriums, devices may be placed around the perimeter, spaced a maximum 100 ft (30 m) apart, in lieu of suspending appliances from the ceiling.

(8) No place in common corridors or hallways in which visual alarm signalling appliances are required shall be more than 50 ft (15 m) from the signal.

Roger

[ August 03, 2005, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
 
Re: Specifications

You guys are from a different piece of cloth, because I know many who don't read them. Hearing you makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside!! :)
 
Re: Specifications

Originally posted by lady sparks lover:
Hearing you makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside!! :eek:

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Lady, you need to lay off the sauce :D :D

I always read the specs, and don't bid if I don't have them.

Some builders want a price off of a print only. This causes the he-said/she-said routine.
 
Re: Specifications

Some of the most expensive, time consuming, and unusual stuff hides out in the specs. I think you'd have to be partially (or wholly) nuts to run a job without intimate knowledge of the specs.
 
Re: Specifications

Originally posted by tx2step:
If I do a job for you, I'll know your Drawings and your Specifications better than you do. :(
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Amen, and pass the Engineering Notes. To me, it's a matter of efficiency, knowing the spec. means I know what I need to do and can better plan to get it done.

Perhaps more importantly, it's a matter of CYA. I remember a hotel job I worked. 96 guest rooms, and the spec. called for the EC purchasing the bath fans. My boss (at the time) said "Who cares what the damn spec. says, the tin knockers always supply the fans on commercial jobs." My reply was something along the lines of "well, the mechanical foreman is right here with me and he cares about the spec., and he's refusing to provide the bath fans, so you better start caring about it." Of course, we wound up eating the cost of all 96 fans, because the spec said it was our responsibility. But, since "no one reads specs" that cost was not part of our bid. OUCH!
 
Re: Specifications

The specs are the first thing I ask for ! I go over the print then I settle down for some light reading. Seriously I do read the specs, where else do you find out the color of the devices, accepted conduit types, Mounting heights etc,etc.
At least in commercial electric, it could cost lots of $$$$ by not reading the specs
 
Re: Specifications

I sure wish some of you guys had done work for me. I'm on the customer end and have experienced on a real large job where the EC never even showed up to the site. His superintendent only called maybe once a month, and the Forman on site just stood there and looked at me like some kind of dummy when I asked how some parts of the job were going. My boss at the time when I told him how pathetic this contractor was just said well, we'll have to fix it all afterward, just do what you have to do to get the job done. I ended up having to do just about all the prep work and coordination with the EC sub contractors. Yep I'm a sucker but I got the job done and well, now I work somewhere else.

Edit: OH Yeah! I never used that contractor again while I was at that facility. Which was about another 3 years.

[ August 03, 2005, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: 69boss302 ]
 
Re: Specifications

Originally posted by mdshunk:
Some of the most expensive, time consuming, and unusual stuff hides out in the specs. I think you'd have to be partially (or wholly) nuts to run a job without intimate knowledge of the specs.
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Or you better have a pile of money that you've grown tired of counting.

Sometimes it makes me think that the A/E sets a few traps just to see if you are paying attention? ;)

[ August 03, 2005, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: tx2step ]
 
Re: Specifications

I've been involved with alot of medium to large projects in the past where a lack of beng itimately familiar with the spec's was tantamount to vocational suicide! Especially anything concerning Fed or state govmt. I can't believe anybody building something other than a roadside vegetable stand wouldn't read the specs. Even the vegetable stand could get dicey! :eek:
 
Re: Specifications

specs are there for a reason. Each customer has different needs and requirements. Not reading specs is a sure way to potentially lose a lot of money. I always go over specs with a fine tooth comb before bidding. I may find something in there that would keep me from bidding a job.
In the spec's there is usually contract language as well such as payment terms and the worst of all Liquidated damages. If you were given spec's and did not read them you have no chance in court.
If spec,s exist but for some reason you were not given them at bid time i always put a disclaimer or clarification in my bid stating that i will not be held responsible for anything that was not done to spec.
 
Re: Specifications

I would say that at least half the time I put out specs the EC either missed or ignored some part of them.

Usually it is something that is a matter of personal preferance rather than a serious issue (like running a green wire instead of using the conduit as a bonding means).

Most of the time they just do it and hope I will not notice. I often do notice, but usually allow it to pass unless it is a "real" problem, since usually there is not time in the schedule to rework something that is servicable.

One of the things that irritates me the most is failing to put in spare wires. I realize they want to come back later and do more work, but when the drawings show spare wires, the miserable EC ought to run them.

[ August 04, 2005, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: petersonra ]
 
Re: Specifications

Bob

Using conduit for ground instead of running a green wire in my opinion is not Just preference when it is in the spec. The EC simply did not read. There are a lot of gray areas where methods and personal preference exist but spec is spec and no one should assume that anything different would be ok.

I would fully expect to change anything that was not done to spec when it was clearly spelled out.
 
Re: Specifications

Problem being that time being money (often worth tens of thousands of dollars per day - or even per hour) it is not so hard to decide that one's preferences can be waived.

I won't pass on critical issues like safety, code, or required functionality, but it often comes down to dollars. Is meeting the spec worth losing $10,000 (or whatever) worth of production? If it is not, than production rules.

I've worked on projects where production time is worth $5000 a MINUTE in NET profits. You think the end user cares a whit if there is a green wire inside his EMT when he can safely get by without it?
 
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