SPECIFIED MANUFACTURERS

[Alwayslearningelec]

Say your spec only mentioned ONE manufacturer then said the always stated "Or approved Equal". I am curious how the procees works. Does an approved equal usually get approved? Why I ask because would you go in with the lower quote for the bid if the were not the mentioned manufacturer? Thanks

 

[Strathead]

Or approved equal means just that. Generally you will find an additional statement in the specifications that requires all requests for substitutions be made xxx days before the bid. Without this, you take the risk. Whether it would be accepted is really up in the air. I know the Engineers and Architects I would be willing to chance it with here. Also depends on the owner. Regarding fixtures though you will often see a fixture with a specified part number from say Daybrite, then in the manufacturer block they will list Daybrite, Lightolier, Metalux. The equivalent fixture by any of these will be accepted. You should talk to your supply house and find out what type of commitment they are making on an or equal package. For example, there are 16 fixture types and 14 of them have the equal manufacturer in the block. The only fixtures at risk are the 2 that show sole source. The secondary provider will often take the risk that they can satisfy the owner/design team to use their fixture. If not, then I make it their problem to purchase the specified fixture at no additional cost to us.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

Or approved equal means just that. Generally you will find an additional statement in the specifications that requires all requests for substitutions be made xxx days before the bid. Without this, you take the risk. Whether it would be accepted is really up in the air. I know the Engineers and Architects I would be willing to chance it with here. Also depends on the owner. Regarding fixtures though you will often see a fixture with a specified part number from say Daybrite, then in the manufacturer block they will list Daybrite, Lightolier, Metalux. The equivalent fixture by any of these will be accepted. You should talk to your supply house and find out what type of commitment they are making on an or equal package. For example, there are 16 fixture types and 14 of them have the equal manufacturer in the block. The only fixtures at risk are the 2 that show sole source. The secondary provider will often take the risk that they can satisfy the owner/design team to use their fixture. If not, then I make it their problem to purchase the specified fixture at no additional cost to us.

Thanks.

 

[tkb]

Sometimes an electric room size is based on using a certain switchgear.
If you substitute, it may change the space required.
I have seen the responsibility of any costs of a change due to a substitution to be by the contract making the substitution.

 

[petersonra]

It may not be as important with lighting fixtures and such, but in my business end users do not want to spend a lot of time and money training their techincians and electricians on something different than what they already have. There is also the issue of spare parts. it makes little sense to save a few hundred bucks by using something different than is in the rest of the plant if it means you have to buy $1000 worth of spares.

 

[jumper]

It may not be as important with lighting fixtures and such, but in my business end users do not want to spend a lot of time and money training their techincians and electricians on something different than what they already have. There is also the issue of spare parts. it makes little sense to save a few hundred bucks by using something different than is in the rest of the plant if it means you have to buy $1000 worth of spares.

Good point.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

Good point is right

 

[renosteinke]

Ever hear "it's not what you say, but how you say it?" The principle applies here.

It's common for prints, etc., to somewhere have blanket statements such as 'or equivalent.' Think of those statements as acting like the first half of the NEC- just general statements that can / will be modified by the balance of the agreement.

The long text of the contract might say 'use Brand X.' That statement overrides / modifies the blanket 'or equivalent' that you might see elsewhere. This can get interesting when there are conflicting specs, or when the specified product does not exist. For example, when the job specs QO breakers in GE panels.

That's when you need to stop and get things cleared up, in writing, before you go any further. Don't kid yourself; I've seen plenty of 'respectable' folks deliberately fill their specs with contradictions simply to mess with the contractor. Let me give one example ...

A customer wanted some shelving installed. He provided drawings that showed each unit to have five shelves and a closed top - which was simply another shelf installed at the top. The specification referred repeatedly to 'five shelves,' so the contractor priced the job using five shelves. Once one site, the contractor saw that he needed six shelves to make each unit. Oops. Big money loser for the careless contractor - after all, the drawing clearly showed five shelves AND a closed top, even specified the shelf placement. I write that up to a simple mistake on the contractors' part, save for the fact that the customer gleefully explained to me how he had 'set up' the contractor to make that exact mistake. Pure malice on the customers' part.

 

[Strathead]

. This can get interesting when there are conflicting specs,

Read the rest of renosteinke's quote, if you didn't, but my comment is that in Florida, specifications have precedence over plans, including details. I think this is bogus, but find out your state laws regarding this.

 

[iwire]

Read the rest of renosteinke's quote, if you didn't, but my comment is that in Florida, specifications have precedence over plans, including details. I think this is bogus, but find out your state laws regarding this.

Most contracts that I have seen will tell us the specifications override plans.

 

[tkb]

Most contracts that I have seen will tell us the specifications override plans.

I have seen statements in specifications that when thereis a contradiction between the drawings and the specification, the moreexpensive will be required.

 

[Strathead]

I have seen statements in specifications that when thereis a contradiction between the drawings and the specification, the moreexpensive will be required.

Yes, so have I. It is definitely a gotcha and, as an estimator, I try to get clarification, because I would bid the higher cost item usually.

 

[petersonra]

Some times there is interesting verbiage that comes attached to the P.O. as well.

The place I used to work did a lot of work for big engineering companies and it was not unusual to get a ten page attachment to the P.O. usually somewhere in the attachment it said anything in the P.O. outranks anything in the specs.

Most of the time it did not matter much, but sometimes it took weeks to straighten out what had been sold versus what had been purchased.