Speed tips for Residential

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celtic said:
...but if you're accustomed to level of stress ~ party on!


Not sure I can really relate to the stress factor, sure these types of people have a few issues. But for the most part things are good, I really dont mind rewiring a 2nd floor 2 times... :grin:
 
I see satcoms point, but there are jobs (This is just my opinion) that if you did bid you would have two outcomes, 1st would be you didn't receive the job because of your bid being to high, and 2nd you would loose your shirt because of the time it actually took to do the job, I find this especially true if you have someone bidding the job off a set of prints vs a mechanic actually going to do the job... things always look good on paper.
 
You are right stickboy you could easily loose on remodels and it has happened to me in the past, I did not actually loose money but after my calculations I realized my hourly rate calculated to $25. I have switched to bidding because I am kind of burnt out by working by my self and eventually would like to hire 1 or 2 guys and train them to do most of the physical part of the work. I dont think I could charge customers T&M when I have other people working for me.
Jason
 
stickboy1375 said:
I see satcoms point, but there are jobs (This is just my opinion) that if you did bid you would have two outcomes, 1st would be you didn't receive the job because of your bid being to high, and 2nd you would loose your shirt because of the time it actually took to do the job, I find this especially true if you have someone bidding the job off a set of prints vs a mechanic actually going to do the job... things always look good on paper.

Ok, "1st would be you didn't receive the job because of your bid being to high"

That's an easy one, if your bid was done using your calcuated cost (All your expenses, overhead, and operating costs plus a good profit figure.) an they refused it at that price, you actually won, because you din't loose money.

Also if they refused your bid price, they will most likely argue your T&M price, and just be another problem customer.

"2nd you would loose your shirt because of the time it actually took to do the job, I find this especially true if you have someone bidding the job off a set of prints vs a mechanic actually going to do the job... things always look good on paper."

Bidding with prints, is one of the better methods, If you have the prints, you have a document, (A road map of the job) there is less of a chance loosing your shirt, with a planned job. When your doing your takoffs. use your job actuals figures, (Exact cost of doing a task from completed job records).
 
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satcom said:
Bidding with prints, is one of the better methods, If you have the prints, you have a document, (A road map of the job) there is less of a chance loosing your shirt, with a planned job. When your doing your takoffs. use your job actuals figures, (Exact cost of doing a task from completed job records).


Thats the problem with prints, you don't see exactly how the building was built, i'm only talking residential now, so there are NO plumbing or ductwork layouts. So you can't just do a take off with a print because you have no idea how your going to get your feeders to the 2nd floor let alone just get to the panel locations... :grin: How can you possible bid something like that? I'm not trying to argue with anyones bidding methods, just telling the way I see it...
 
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stickboy1375 said:
Thats the problem with prints, you don't see exactly how the building was built,

Your just not comfortable with estimating....neither am I. I hate when the shop asks me to look a job over and put a price together.

That said in the big picture giving a set price can work quite well. Right now I have been hiring contractors to do my roof and repair my chimney and foundation. I might pay less if I went T&M with the mason however I don't mind paying a bit extra just so that I can budget a fixed price...no surprises.

The roofer gave a me a set price but he also covered his rear by excluding the repair of any roof boards that might be damaged. They gave me a per sq ft replacement cost or I have the options of fixing them myself.

As a homeowner / consumer I would not have been comfortable telling either of these contractors to go ahead on T&M.

Of course at work I am more then happy to work T&M, I have been on T&M solid since early January. :D
 
Steady T+M is great if it's winter and New Construction is slow for me.

New Construction allows for more profit on bid if done correctly.

I would rather take a small hit every once in a while bidding and make the extra premium on a job properly bid/run.

Speed and Efficiency in New Construction are key. Limiting mistakes and charging for extras are a big plus as well.

Tom
 
Speed tip #4578

Get a set of Rack A Teers and those black plastic spinners made by Southwire (HD sells them for $10 a piece) and a piece of 1" PVC. Voila - multiple homeruns at once!
 
stickboy1375 said:
Thats the problem with prints, you don't see exactly how the building was built, i'm only talking residential now, so there are NO plumbing or ductwork layouts. So you can't just do a take off with a print because you have no idea how your going to get your feeders to the 2nd floor let alone just get to the panel locations... :grin: How can you possible bid something like that? I'm not trying to argue with anyones bidding methods, just telling the way I see it...

Try to get the complete set, as Bob said "Your just not comfortable with estimating" and that is ok, estimating is a long learning curve, and even the best of estimators, have some difficult times. With a complete digital print, I can look at the job in layers, and see the job in detail, even with hard prints you can get a decent view, if the prints are a professional set, that's a big if sometimes, a large number of remod guys don't want to pay the fright for a complete set, they compromise for a floor plan, something that I am not comfortable with, start keeping track of your jobs, record the actual times for the different tasks, then apply that to a smaller job, by generating a practice bid, do the smaller job T&M and then compare it with your bid.
Start slow, it's not a race, You may be supprised at how well you can bid, when you have the actuals to work from.
 
When I first started doing electrical work we would wire TWO 1500 foot tract homes a day including hanging the service.....with a two man crew.

Because they wer small tract homes, layout was from memory because there were only about six models, and ceilings were only 8 foot and generally trussed. They also were not loaded with recessed cans and LV lighting.

For us, it was all about work methods. Do one job, using one set of tools then proceed to the next job with those appropriate tools. You don't need to drag all your tools with you when you are running wire, just dikes, hammer and staples.

The methods I remember are:

1. Layout (tape and marker), box (hammer), and drill (angle drill/sharp bit, ladder) everything.

2. Run and staple all romex. Do 1 circuit at a time so you don't forget jumpers!! Pull multiple home runs when possible. We never used those spinner things but they really do help.

3. Strip sheath and slip wires into boxes and make up. ( This practice has now been changed and they generally strip the sheathing AFTER it is placed in the box).

One "trick" I remember is for LV wire. Find a weighted object about the size of a golf ball, the heavier the better, and attach an eye hook to it. Tie your LV wire to it and you can chuck it over the ceiling joists4 or 5 at a time without a ladder.



I forgot the STORY POLE! Forget your tape. Put marks (or nails/screws) on a 1x2 at 16 and 48" for your outlets and switch box heights. Add your kit/ bath outlet heights also.

I probably forgot a bunch of other stuff also, it WAS the 70's afterall.



I always keep my lighting circuits seperate from my plugs,

No need for this. It will only cost you time and money.
 
thats the way I did also and it was in the 70's and 80's. I did track housing.It seems to have been a lot easier and faster in those days.
 
Me too, thats how I did tracs in the seventy's also. One refinement was we also used to work a two man team with one guy on drywall stilts and his mate down on flat feet doing all the low parts while he did the high up stuff. No ladders. Then OSHA came along somewhere back there........
 
Larry, John C - your tips were good feedback, and your replies were I think what the OP was looking for. I'm looking to pick up efficiency myself, and these tips were worth noting to me.

I think that sticking with one job at a time, saves time overall - in other words focus on laying out first, knock the boxes on next, run the wire - then come back and make up the joints. Any that agree or disagree - I'd like to see what the thoughts are.
 
When I do a house I will always start on the 2nd floor, I layout and nail up ALL my boxes, recess cans, exhust fans, blocking etc, then I will drill the entire 2nd floor out, then go to town pulling wire, I always pull my feeders last along with any low voltage wiring, I work alone so this method works well... I don't have to worry about someone else trying to figure out how I drilled out the house..

And I use alot of Stack- its, they seem to really speed up the install... Sharp bits are also a plus and I usually have two drills set up, one with a bit and extension, and one with just a bit, you waste alot of time changing drill bits all day...
 
Here's a method I've never seen before. On some new homes going up down the street from me, they are drilling out the whole house before they have any boxes installed. They are just going by the marks they made for the boxes I think.
 
peter d said:
Here's a method I've never seen before. On some new homes going up down the street from me, they are drilling out the whole house before they have any boxes installed. They are just going by the marks they made for the boxes I think.


That way seems to be a tad harder to remember everything, but to each his own, all I can say is I rarely drill a hole I didn't expect to use...
 
peter d said:
On some new homes going up down the street from me, they are drilling out the whole house before they have any boxes installed.
The only advantage I see is that you can drill down below receptacle locations nearer the stud. Big whoop.

stickboy1375 said:
. . . I rarely drill a hole I didn't expect to use...
Same here.
 
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