Spliced scrap wire poll

[peter d]

I can see I touched a nerve here :grin:

Not really. I just get a kick out of your constant negativity and "the sky is falling" attitude.

FWIW I can mount and splice a 4 11/16" box with 2 -8/3 NM cables in about 7-10 minutes with $4 worth of material. That makes it worth it to me.

 

[cschmid]

I love it and I do not have the sky is falling attitude..I am just having a blast.

 

[peter d]

I love it and I do not have the sky is falling attitude..I am just having a blast.

Then why is the general tone of your postings almost always negative?

 

[cschmid]

tell me how is my opinon negative? All I stated was one scenario and there is plenty of scenarios. So telll me how stating a scenario makes me a negative person? I am confused here..

so lets do the math 2 25 ft pieces of wire (I do not know the cost) but you have the cost of 2 25ft pieces of wire which equals the same as a 50ft piece and the cost of the splice and the extra labor so you have added another 20 dollars to the install so how do you feel you saved money for your self or the home owner. If you are using wire someone else paid for what is that?

 

[roger]

so lets do the math 2 25 ft pieces of wire (I do not know the cost) but you have the cost of 2 25ft pieces of wire which equals the same as a 50ft piece and the cost of the splice and the extra labor so you have added another 20 dollars to the install so how do you feel you saved money for your self or the home owner. If you are using wire someone else paid for what is that?

Let's change your numbers to two 100' pieces of 4/3 copper.... (yes a big house)

Unless you are wiring houses T&M you bought material based on an estiimate so anything over the actual wire used is not paid for by the customer, it is inventory.

I would also like to ask what you would say if this thread didn't exist and a HI came here posting that he had made a note of a splice in a range run on his report and it was holding up a sale.

Roger

 

[cschmid]

Roger How does your statement fit into this thread.

All I am stating is that I would not make a splice in a new install..If I were you supervisor then you would not do it on my watch. How you run your personal business and how you supervisor installs is your business. I am entitled to my opinion.

Let see some how some one is paying for the wire and it is suppose to be the customer you are presently serving. So carrying short pieces of copper cable on hand is a bad investment and you might want to get more acurate on your measurements so you do not have long pieces of left over cable on the job, other wise you are double billing for the same wire.

I do not work for a one man shop and when the specs call for 50ft they best be accurate or someone is going to get paper filed because I have to generate a report. the job calls for 50ft I do not take 75ft I take 50ft. So we do not have large pieces of scrap around.

 

[electricmanscott]

Roger How does your statement fit into this thread.

I do not work for a one man shop and when the specs call for 50ft they best be accurate or someone is going to get paper filed because I have to generate a report. the job calls for 50ft I do not take 75ft I take 50ft. So we do not have large pieces of scrap around.

You're kidding right?

 

[roger]

Roger How does your statement fit into this thread.

Well, if you order every run of wire pre cut to length in lieu of buying spools or reels it doesn't

All I am stating is that I would not make a splice in a new install..

That's your prerogative, but for those who would, let me assure you that they are no less professional and have enough confidence in their splices to not worry about it.

I am entitled to my opinion.

And I agree.

Let see some how some one is paying for the wire and it is suppose to be the customer you are presently serving.

When I contract a job I may use material from major purchases which may mean I buy 1000' or 2500' spools, believe me when I say I will have perfectly good scrap wire left on these spools that I am not going to just leave with the customer or throw away.

So carrying short pieces of copper cable on hand is a bad investment and you might want to get more acurate on your measurements so you do not have long pieces of left over cable on the job, other wise you are double billing for the same wire.

Please explain how working off of 1000' spools and not leaving say 950' with the customer is double billing.

I do not work for a one man shop

Nor do I or many of the others in this discussion.

and when the specs call for 50ft they best be accurate or someone is going to get paper filed because I have to generate a report.

So who ever is pulling your material knows how every house or building is framed before you leave the shop with your material?

the job calls for 50ft I do not take 75ft I take 50ft. So we do not have large pieces of scrap around.

See my last question.

Roger

 

[peter d]

Several year back I had to wire an RTU for an office building, 3 phase 480 volts which requires 3/C cable and ground of course. This particular unit required #10. We didn't have a full piece of 10/3 MC cable but we did have several long scraps of 10/4 lying around from a different project. We had plenty of 4 11/16" boxes and MC connectors too. Can you guess what I did?

 

[roger]

Several year back I had to wire an RTU for an office building, 3 phase 480 volts which requires 3/C cable and ground of course. This particular unit required #10. We didn't have a full piece of 10/3 MC cable but we did have several long scraps of 10/4 lying around from a different project. We had plenty of 4 11/16" boxes and MC connectors too. Can you guess what I did?

Huh, bought 2500' rolls of # 10 THWN and piped it in RMC?

Roger

 

[peter d]

Huh, bought 2500' rolls of # 10 THWN and piped it in RMC?

Roger

Of course. PVC coated rigid no less.

 

[iwire]

Staggering, .... I had no idea I was such a good splicer.

Apparently few electricians have any faith at all in their ability to make a long lasting splice. I must be special.

 

[peter d]

Staggering, .... I had no idea I was such a good splicer.

Apparently few electricians have any faith at all in their ability to make a long lasting splice. I must be special.

I just don't trust my ability to put 2 wires together under a wirenut.

 

[PetrosA]

I just don't trust my ability to put 2 wires together under a wirenut.

Hmm, I don't start to worry till I get to at least 5 wires under one nut

 

[LarryFine]

so lets do the math 2 25 ft pieces of wire ... but you have the cost of 2 25ft pieces of wire which equals the same as a 50ft piece and the cost of the splice and the extra labor so you have added another 20 dollars to the install so how do you feel you saved money for your self or the home owner.

Add to the mix that it's late Friday, this is the last run you need to make to complete the rough-in, and you have the two 25ft pieces, but not the 50ft piece.

 

[cschmid]

lmao rotf
I said it did not look professional.I did not say we did not buy large rolls of wire but at no time did I say we were dumb.

you are all extremists so I finds this interesting.

Do you load you trucks up with stuff you might use once a month and carry it around to aid in your fuel mileage and to aid through the stuff you need to wade though to increase your time sorting through stuff.

interesting. who bids your jobs? because if you are investing your profit in excess materials why would you need part houses.

I suppose you need 10,000ft of pipe on the job you would have the parts house deliver it and drop it off all at one time as well. That way you could have your 30 dollar an hour journeymen move it around..good investment..

I do understand how you end up with left overs and when we purchase 500ft of cable on the job if we have 30 ft left over we leave it as the customer paid for the whole 500ft on the bid.

so you would pay 30 dollars an hour to pick it up and put in truck then 30 dollars an hour to put in shop then apprentice wages to move it around and how many times did We already but it..

so lets not go there as I did not just get off boat. also should mention that at times we are over hour from nearest parts house...You learn how to plan and profit is not cutting off 8 Inches at every box..profit is having stuff delivered when you are using it not leaving it around or needing to have several storage units or hauling excess weight.

Now I feel like the one with a bone..I am back to square one and I still think it looks unprofessional to splice certain cables..But I can agree at times you might find it necessary..and yes we have a lot of cut to orders but we take delivery several times on a job not just once..We will not buy the whole roll just because they will give us a deal, not always in our best interest why have 100 dollars hang around the shop for months better things for the 100 dollars to do..

 

[growler]

We will not buy the whole roll just because they will give us a deal, not always in our best interest why have 100 dollars hang around the shop for months better things for the 100 dollars to do..

You are saying that you don't have any short pieces of cable laying around and that's good.

But if you did have short pieces of cable would it be in your best interest to use them or sell them for scrap? We are talking about say $10 dollars extra in materials ( box, cover, connectors, wire nuts, ground screw ) and say $10 of time ( 10 minutes at $60 and hour ) that is a cost of $20 and the prices we could get for the cable scrap is maybe another $20 for a total of $40 cost we can accomplish the same as $100 in new cable.

Now remember the OP already had the cable in stock so he is not really investing any more time. He either uses the cable or sells it for scrap.

I can agree that I would rather not splice a cable and a job does look better without splices but then again throwing $100 bills out the window is no fun either.

The question is if trying to save money now will cost you in the long run. Some people for some reason tend to think that splices will fail but that has not been my experience.

These are houses we are talking about so there is not an excess of vibration ( such as industrial ) and hopfully not a chemical environment ( maybe a meth lab) so if a splices is made say in an attic, dry basement or crawl space there is no reason for it to fail. The actual time that a dryer or range is used is nothing compared to an industrial motor that runs 24/7. I have seen splices in motor circuits last for years under the worst possible conditions so I don't see any reason for a range or dryer circuit to fail if done correctly to start with.

The only down side I can see to splicing the cable is that someone may question the need for a splice in the first place. The circuit should be perfectly functional and it is code legal but there are some picky people in this word.

I have worked in this trade for many years and I have worked for some pretty big companies on some pretty big jobs and I have done many things for no better reason that to save a dollar or two. So if anyone wants to say it's unprofessional to try and save a dollar then I beg to differ with that opinion. You could even say that trying to save a dollar at every opportunity is the mark of a true professional.

Professional work is not always doing the best possible job ( some folks may think that's the case, that doesn't always happen ) , professional work work is doing functional, safe & legal, neat work in a manner that is profitable.

 

[cschmid]

You are correct with your professional assesment. We just did a house cleaning and spent several dollars doing it and filled a complete roll off full of scrap. Some of the pieces would have been able to complete several jobs I have recently done but no one knew they were there and no way of tracking it either. To tell the truth it was hard scrappping some of this stuff but at what point is enough enough. I can say at the price of labor any labor saving install is a good one. under budget good over budget bad..having poor general who drags his feet bad for profit. The steadier the pace the better profit there is.

So when the parts house gives us bids it is with so many trip and how much extra trips will cost. we order it as we go and have it delivered..we do carry inventory and several thousands worth with double sets of tools stocked in a trailer just as most others do. cost of doing business.

most days our shop is a construction trailer with muddy conditions as a norm, wet cold and dampand handleing cold steel and stiff wire. So welcome to the life of a master electricain and also please do not wreck the laptop, prints, or destroy the trailer it is rented. Oh and by the way this week we are staying in a dingy old motel so we can cut costs. you are going to have a selection of two restraunts and you get to guess what is in town for entertainment..you got it one theater and a bar nearest town 20 miles..we will only be 4 days a week for a while. the up side is I nstalled several thousand dollars worth of bulbs last week pretty soon we get a new town and a new motel..

edited to add: last Job construction manager 9 years why did I quit..Now just like I was 10years ago a construction monkey.. I do love it.. maybe buy restraunt or even a hardware store..

 

[mcclary's electrical]

You are saying that you don't have any short pieces of cable laying around and that's good.

But if you did have short pieces of cable would it be in your best interest to use them or sell them for scrap? We are talking about say $10 dollars extra in materials ( box, cover, connectors, wire nuts, ground screw ) and say $10 of time ( 10 minutes at $60 and hour ) that is a cost of $20 and the prices we could get for the cable scrap is maybe another $20 for a total of $40 cost we can accomplish the same as $100 in new cable.

Now remember the OP already had the cable in stock so he is not really investing any more time. He either uses the cable or sells it for scrap.

I can agree that I would rather not splice a cable and a job does look better without splices but then again throwing $100 bills out the window is no fun either.

The question is if trying to save money now will cost you in the long run. Some people for some reason tend to think that splices will fail but that has not been my experience.

These are houses we are talking about so there is not an excess of vibration ( such as industrial ) and hopfully not a chemical environment ( maybe a meth lab) so if a splices is made say in an attic, dry basement or crawl space there is no reason for it to fail. The actual time that a dryer or range is used is nothing compared to an industrial motor that runs 24/7. I have seen splices in motor circuits last for years under the worst possible conditions so I don't see any reason for a range or dryer circuit to fail if done correctly to start with.

The only down side I can see to splicing the cable is that someone may question the need for a splice in the first place. The circuit should be perfectly functional and it is code legal but there are some picky people in this word.

I have worked in this trade for many years and I have worked for some pretty big companies on some pretty big jobs and I have done many things for no better reason that to save a dollar or two. So if anyone wants to say it's unprofessional to try and save a dollar then I beg to differ with that opinion. You could even say that trying to save a dollar at every opportunity is the mark of a true professional.

Professional work is not always doing the best possible job ( some folks may think that's the case, that doesn't always happen ) , professional work work is doing functional, safe & legal, neat work in a manner that is profitable.

I vote this thread be closed.....Growler has summed it up so well, that nobody else needs to post anything. Thanks Growler

 

[LarryFine]

I vote this thread be closed.....

But, wait! First, we need to hit . . . ahh, 100 posts!

Okay, now we're ready.