Spray Foam insulation with Recess lights: Question

[doc12]

Hi Folks,

Working on a new house where they are spray foaming walls and ceilings. Customer wants recessed cans in the cathedral ceilings which are getting foamed as well. Reading an article from Cooper lighting indicates foam should be kept away by 3 inches. Any suggestions and or code issues as to how to protect the cans ? The foam guys could care less and will spray everything!!!

Thanks,
T

 

[ptonsparky]

Try a different brand of fixtures?

 

[doc12]

Do you know of a brand rated to be in contact with foam and still have access to the wiring if you have to pull the can down?

 

[JFletcher]

Get a cover for the IC (insulation contact) rated cans:

https://dcpd6wotaa0mb.cloudfront.ne...p-Light-Cover-Data-Sheet-Install-Instruct.pdf

or this

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Tenmat-Recessed-Light-Cover-FF130E/204286308

 

[doc12]

Get a cover for the IC (insulation contact) rated cans:

https://dcpd6wotaa0mb.cloudfront.ne...p-Light-Cover-Data-Sheet-Install-Instruct.pdf

or this

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Tenmat-Recessed-Light-Cover-FF130E/204286308

Hi Fletcher,

Those would work fine if the sheetrock was up. My problem is 2 fold. New construction and on a cathedral ceiling!

 

[mopowr steve]

Quick question........ you said it is a cathedral ceiling right?

So aren't your can housings already of a sloped type which have a secondary "box" built around the can itself. If so, I would think..... spray away there should be the 3" clearance built-in from the internal can and housing.

By the way, if a fixture says it's IC (in cover) then why all af a sudden does it matter what insulation is being used?

 

[ptonsparky]

The 3" space does sound like a non IC rated can, but the foam around the jbox is something I hadn't thought about. Those suckers will never move once foamed, IC or not.

 

[GoldDigger]

By the way, if a fixture says it's IC (in cover) then why all af a sudden does it matter what insulation is being used?

lf an IC fixture is in batt or loose fill insulation you can pull it down to access wiring compartment.
Try that if it is foamed in place.

OP might try a temperature resistant loose wrap or more rigid tent to keep the foam off the can and leave room to pull it down?

I am not quite clear on how the foam will be placed in/on the cathedral ceiling. Underside of foam exposed? Most foams require a fireproof (resistant) covering.



Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[mopowr steve]

One thing I forgot to mention was that the junction box is butted up to the larger housing so access could still be gained...... albeit that nasty foam will probably propagate itself into making it difficult to remove j-box cover within that housing.:ashamed1:

 

[doc12]

Quick question........ you said it is a cathedral ceiling right?

So aren't your can housings already of a sloped type which have a secondary "box" built around the can itself. If so, I would think..... spray away there should be the 3" clearance built-in from the internal can and housing.

By the way, if a fixture says it's IC (in cover) then why all af a sudden does it matter what insulation is being used?

Hi Steve,

With the new led trims, there is really no need for a sloped type box. But regardless of the box, If you read cooper lighting technical specs on IC rated cans, they say this: "Cooper Lighting recommends that spray-in foams be kept 3” from recessed luminaires."
So my question to the members of this site is. 1. Is there a new construction box that IS compliant to be used per the manufacture that can be in direct contact with spray foam insulation? 2. Is there anything in the NEC that pertains to installation procedures with spray foam insulation? 3. What can we do as professionals to maintain best practices and be in compliance with the lighting manufactures?
We all know that spray foam installers will spray over everything.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Hi Folks,

Working on a new house where they are spray foaming walls and ceilings. Customer wants recessed cans in the cathedral ceilings which are getting foamed as well. Reading an article from Cooper lighting indicates foam should be kept away by 3 inches. Any suggestions and or code issues as to how to protect the cans ? The foam guys could care less and will spray everything!!!

Thanks,
T

'taint gonna be pretty, but it'll work.....

cut some drywall to fit between joists, and block the things out,
so there is a void.
put some drywall squares over the cans to keep the goop out.
screw them down. the cans should flex up enough into the void
to let the drywall seal against the joists.

after commander spray foam is done, pull the covers off. you now
have a void around the light.

if the owners are nuts about having a pretty IR scan at the end of
the day, pack fiberglass insulation around the cans.

don't forget to charge extra for this.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

:thumbsup:

'taint gonna be pretty, but it'll work.....

cut some drywall to fit between joists, and block the things out,
so there is a void.
put some drywall squares over the cans to keep the goop out.
screw them down. the cans should flex up enough into the void
to let the drywall seal against the joists.

after commander spray foam is done, pull the covers off. you now
have a void around the light.

if the owners are nuts about having a pretty IR scan at the end of
the day, pack fiberglass insulation around the cans.

don't forget to charge extra for this.

:thumbsup:

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The problem is access to the box. Either block the can with 2x ? (rafter size) use the slope ceiling can where you can access the jb from inside the can. That is the issue.

Golddigger- cathedral ceiling doesn't necessarily mean exposed rafters but rather a sloped ceiling with insulation and sheetrock.

 

[winnie]

How much insulation will be left in this ceiling/under the roof where these fixtures will be, especially with the blocking to keep foam away from the fixtures?

Poorly insulated areas in otherwise well insulated walls can have strange problems with condensation and temperature differences on the walls.

-Jon

 

[James L]

'taint gonna be pretty, but it'll work.....

cut some drywall to fit between joists, and block the things out,
so there is a void.
put some drywall squares over the cans to keep the goop out.
screw them down. the cans should flex up enough into the void
to let the drywall seal against the joists.

after commander spray foam is done, pull the covers off. you now
have a void around the light.

if the owners are nuts about having a pretty IR scan at the end of
the day, pack fiberglass insulation around the cans.

don't forget to charge extra for this.

And use shallow cans to give more room above it for foam

 

[kwired]

How much insulation will be left in this ceiling/under the roof where these fixtures will be, especially with the blocking to keep foam away from the fixtures?

Poorly insulated areas in otherwise well insulated walls can have strange problems with condensation and temperature differences on the walls.

-Jon

And in places where it gets cold enough, those mornings when there is frost on the roof you can see from outside exactly where every light can is located - those are the round spots with no frost on them.

 

[curt swartz]

Spray foam is becoming pretty common on projects I have been working on the past couple of years. On the jobs I have seen after insulation but before rock the insulators have packed fiberglass bat insulation above and around the cans. This keeps the foam from contacting the can.

The last thing you want is for them to foam above the can. It will push the can out of the ceiling.

 

[gadfly56]

Spray foam is becoming pretty common on projects I have been working on the past couple of years. On the jobs I have seen after insulation but before rock the insulators have packed fiberglass bat insulation above and around the cans. This keeps the foam from contacting the can.

The last thing you want is for them to foam above the can. It will push the can out of the ceiling.

I was wondering about that.

 

[mwm1752]

Spray foam is becoming pretty common on projects I have been working on the past couple of years. On the jobs I have seen after insulation but before rock the insulators have packed fiberglass bat insulation above and around the cans. This keeps the foam from contacting the can.

The last thing you want is for them to foam above the can. It will push the can out of the ceiling.

I've seen more "not in contact with spray foam" but never 3" away -- The batts for separation IMO are ok for IC cans to contact with -- If the ceiling framing can be inspected & foamed prior to sub trades material install that works well.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I was wondering about that.

nothing to wonder about. there is no doubt about it.