Spray Foam insulation with Recess lights: Question

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doc12

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Hi Folks,

Working on a new house where they are spray foaming walls and ceilings. Customer wants recessed cans in the cathedral ceilings which are getting foamed as well. Reading an article from Cooper lighting indicates foam should be kept away by 3 inches. Any suggestions and or code issues as to how to protect the cans ? The foam guys could care less and will spray everything!!!

Thanks,
T
 
Do you know of a brand rated to be in contact with foam and still have access to the wiring if you have to pull the can down?
 
Quick question........ you said it is a cathedral ceiling right?

So aren't your can housings already of a sloped type which have a secondary "box" built around the can itself. If so, I would think..... spray away there should be the 3" clearance built-in from the internal can and housing.

By the way, if a fixture says it's IC (in cover) then why all af a sudden does it matter what insulation is being used?
 
mopowr steve said:
By the way, if a fixture says it's IC (in cover) then why all af a sudden does it matter what insulation is being used?
Click to expand...
lf an IC fixture is in batt or loose fill insulation you can pull it down to access wiring compartment.
Try that if it is foamed in place.

OP might try a temperature resistant loose wrap or more rigid tent to keep the foam off the can and leave room to pull it down?

I am not quite clear on how the foam will be placed in/on the cathedral ceiling. Underside of foam exposed? Most foams require a fireproof (resistant) covering.



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One thing I forgot to mention was that the junction box is butted up to the larger housing so access could still be gained...... albeit that nasty foam will probably propagate itself into making it difficult to remove j-box cover within that housing.:ashamed1:
 
mopowr steve said:
Quick question........ you said it is a cathedral ceiling right?

So aren't your can housings already of a sloped type which have a secondary "box" built around the can itself. If so, I would think..... spray away there should be the 3" clearance built-in from the internal can and housing.

By the way, if a fixture says it's IC (in cover) then why all af a sudden does it matter what insulation is being used?
Click to expand...

Hi Steve,

With the new led trims, there is really no need for a sloped type box. But regardless of the box, If you read cooper lighting technical specs on IC rated cans, they say this: "Cooper Lighting recommends that spray-in foams be kept 3” from recessed luminaires."
So my question to the members of this site is. 1. Is there a new construction box that IS compliant to be used per the manufacture that can be in direct contact with spray foam insulation? 2. Is there anything in the NEC that pertains to installation procedures with spray foam insulation? 3. What can we do as professionals to maintain best practices and be in compliance with the lighting manufactures?
We all know that spray foam installers will spray over everything.
 
doc12 said:
Hi Folks,

Working on a new house where they are spray foaming walls and ceilings. Customer wants recessed cans in the cathedral ceilings which are getting foamed as well. Reading an article from Cooper lighting indicates foam should be kept away by 3 inches. Any suggestions and or code issues as to how to protect the cans ? The foam guys could care less and will spray everything!!!

Thanks,
T
Click to expand...

'taint gonna be pretty, but it'll work.....

cut some drywall to fit between joists, and block the things out,
so there is a void.
put some drywall squares over the cans to keep the goop out.
screw them down. the cans should flex up enough into the void
to let the drywall seal against the joists.

after commander spray foam is done, pull the covers off. you now
have a void around the light.

if the owners are nuts about having a pretty IR scan at the end of
the day, pack fiberglass insulation around the cans.

don't forget to charge extra for this.
 
:thumbsup:
Fulthrotl said:
'taint gonna be pretty, but it'll work.....

cut some drywall to fit between joists, and block the things out,
so there is a void.
put some drywall squares over the cans to keep the goop out.
screw them down. the cans should flex up enough into the void
to let the drywall seal against the joists.

after commander spray foam is done, pull the covers off. you now
have a void around the light.

if the owners are nuts about having a pretty IR scan at the end of
the day, pack fiberglass insulation around the cans.

don't forget to charge extra for this.
Click to expand...
:thumbsup:
 
The problem is access to the box. Either block the can with 2x ? (rafter size) use the slope ceiling can where you can access the jb from inside the can. That is the issue.

Golddigger- cathedral ceiling doesn't necessarily mean exposed rafters but rather a sloped ceiling with insulation and sheetrock.
 
How much insulation will be left in this ceiling/under the roof where these fixtures will be, especially with the blocking to keep foam away from the fixtures?

Poorly insulated areas in otherwise well insulated walls can have strange problems with condensation and temperature differences on the walls.

-Jon
 
Fulthrotl said:
'taint gonna be pretty, but it'll work.....

cut some drywall to fit between joists, and block the things out,
so there is a void.
put some drywall squares over the cans to keep the goop out.
screw them down. the cans should flex up enough into the void
to let the drywall seal against the joists.

after commander spray foam is done, pull the covers off. you now
have a void around the light.

if the owners are nuts about having a pretty IR scan at the end of
the day, pack fiberglass insulation around the cans.

don't forget to charge extra for this.
Click to expand...
And use shallow cans to give more room above it for foam
 
winnie said:
How much insulation will be left in this ceiling/under the roof where these fixtures will be, especially with the blocking to keep foam away from the fixtures?

Poorly insulated areas in otherwise well insulated walls can have strange problems with condensation and temperature differences on the walls.

-Jon
Click to expand...

And in places where it gets cold enough, those mornings when there is frost on the roof you can see from outside exactly where every light can is located - those are the round spots with no frost on them.
 
Spray foam is becoming pretty common on projects I have been working on the past couple of years. On the jobs I have seen after insulation but before rock the insulators have packed fiberglass bat insulation above and around the cans. This keeps the foam from contacting the can.

The last thing you want is for them to foam above the can. It will push the can out of the ceiling.
 
curt swartz said:
Spray foam is becoming pretty common on projects I have been working on the past couple of years. On the jobs I have seen after insulation but before rock the insulators have packed fiberglass bat insulation above and around the cans. This keeps the foam from contacting the can.

The last thing you want is for them to foam above the can. It will push the can out of the ceiling.
Click to expand...

I was wondering about that.
 
curt swartz said:
Spray foam is becoming pretty common on projects I have been working on the past couple of years. On the jobs I have seen after insulation but before rock the insulators have packed fiberglass bat insulation above and around the cans. This keeps the foam from contacting the can.

The last thing you want is for them to foam above the can. It will push the can out of the ceiling.
Click to expand...

I've seen more "not in contact with spray foam" but never 3" away -- The batts for separation IMO are ok for IC cans to contact with -- If the ceiling framing can be inspected & foamed prior to sub trades material install that works well.
 
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