Starbucks

Status
Not open for further replies.
I am not at all against safety and adding items for safety to a circuit such as GFCIs, but the OP wants to know if this is a kitchen.

I am not that familar with the setup of Starbucks, so I do not know if they have a sink behind the counter, or "permanent" facilities for cooking. I personally do not believe that making coffee like at home is cooking, but... making coffee for thousands of people a day may be different circumstances.

So, does Starbucks have a sink behind their counters?


Personally, I think anyone who is wiring a commecial place like Starbucks takes a very large liability by not supplying GFCI protection to the receptacles at the "work area" of this type of establishment.
 
I can not say much about what Starbucks has.

If it is like either of the chains I frequent it is by NEC definition a kitchen.

They have sinks and permanent facilities for food preparation and cooking behind the counters.
 
So, does Starbucks have a sink behind their counters?

I haven't been in all of them, but the ones I have been in have a sink behind their counters.

A lot of restaurants do not have a sink behind their counter. They have refrigerators, juice dispensers, coffee makers, steam tables, hot plates, etc.; does this mean they are not kitchens?
 
210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel.

FPN: See 215.9 for ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel on feeders.

(A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in (1) through (8) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

(1) Bathrooms

(2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use

Exception No. 1 to (2): Receptacles that are not readily accessible.

Exception No. 2 to (2): A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle for two appliances located within dedicated space for each appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another and that is cord-and-plug connected in accordance with 400.7(A)(6), (A)(7), or (A)(8).

Receptacles installed under the exceptions to 210.8(A)(2) shall not be considered as meeting the requirements of 210.52(G)

(3) Outdoors

Exception to (3): Receptacles that are not readily accessible and are supplied by a dedicated branch circuit for electric snow-melting or deicing equipment shall be permitted to be installed in accordance with 426.28.

(4) Crawl spaces — at or below grade level

(5) Unfinished basements — for purposes of this section, unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and the like

Exception No. 1 to (5): Receptacles that are not readily accessible.

Exception No. 2 to (5): A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle for two appliances located within dedicated space for each appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another and that is cord-and-plug connected in accordance with 400.7(A)(6), (A)(7), or (A)(8).

Exception No. 3 to (5): A receptacle supplying only a permanently installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system shall not be required to have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection.

Receptacles installed under the exceptions to 210.8(A)(5) shall not be considered as meeting the requirements of 210.52(G).

(6) Kitchens — where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces

(7) Laundry, utility, and wet bar sinks — where the receptacles are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the outside edge of the sink

(8) Boathouses

(B) Other Than Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in (1) through (5) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel:

(1) Bathrooms

(2) Commercial and institutional kitchens — for the purposes of this section, a kitchen is an area with a sink and permanent facilities for food preparation and cooking

(3) Rooftops

(4) Outdoors in public spaces—for the purpose of this section a public space is defined as any space that is for use by, or is accessible to, the public



Exception to (3) and (4): Receptacles that are not readily accessible and are supplied from a dedicated branch circuit for electric snow-melting or deicing equipment shall be permitted to be installed in accordance with the applicable provisions of Article 426.

(5) Outdoors, where installed to comply with 210.63

(C) Boat Hoists. Ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel shall be provided for outlets that supply boat hoists installed in dwelling unit locations and supplied by 125-volt, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits.

a kitchen is an area with a sink and permanent facilities for food preparation and cooking

Just looking at above statement: How do you define area? We have a kitchen that is an area under certain conditions.
We have a laundry area. If I recall correctly we have a bathroom area. Now mind you all of these areas in some instances are about as clear as mud to me.

Do we have a definition of permanent? We have no definition of food. Most generally it is something that provides a degree of nutrition, which would include most water, coffee, cocoa, and so on.

Cooking is sometimes defined as the preparation of food for consumption. In which case the statement for what is required to be a kitchen is redundant.

So is an area separated by a wall from what fits the description of kitchen actually the same area as the kitchen. In my mind if both sides of a wall are considered the same area, how do we distinguish one area from another. If the wall doesn't determine the boundry, what does? Does it extend all the way to the front wall or maybe to the parking lot. Maybe it is dependant on what area of jurisdiction we are in.
 
Last edited:
dlhoule said:
We have no definition of food. Most generally it is something that provides a degree of nutrition...
Click to expand...
But then, what about fast food restaurants? Have they no food? :D

Given that the 210.8(B) definition of kitchen is used as the benchmark for kitchen code discussions anyway (with a nod and a wink that it doesn't explicitly apply inside a dwelling unit), I agree with it's inclusion to Article 100.

I can think of no definition that could not have holes poked through it, so I reckon the one given is probably going to be as good as it gets, IMO.

If someone has what they deem to be rock solid definition of kitchen, I would like to see it.

A the end of the day, I suppose it comes down to 90.4, it pains me to say. :)
 
IMO it would be concidered a kitchen. Coffee is prepared on a daily basis, as food would be. The equipment used to make and prepare the coffee would be washed, in a sink. I would be even willing to bet that they have health inspections on a yearly basis, as a restaurant would. I have never been to starbucks, but then again I'm not a big coffee fan. Monsters is my drug of choice.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
From Larry
"kitchen area: an area used primarily for food and beverage preperation."


That could be the description of some dining rooms.
and
my living room ;)
Click to expand...


Hmmms.... If a dining room had a sink .... and lets say it was a buffet joint ... with warmers and steamers in the dining room.... Old Country Buffet is like this .... I bet it would be concidered, as part of a kitchen.
 
Not that this means much but Webesters dictionary defines food as
1 a : material consisting essentially of protein, carbohydrate, and fat used in the body of an organism to sustain growth, repair, and vital processes and to furnish energy.
Click to expand...

After reading that "food" is used to furnish energy, then I am completely convinced that coffee is "food" (you should see me before my coffee and after :D)

The Starbucks that is being built here is going to serve breakfast as well as coffee, and they do have a sink.

After looking at this, my opinion is that this Starbucks is indeed a "Kitchen" as defined in 210.8(B)(2).

Thanks again everyone for their thoughts.

Chris
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top