Starting a company without license

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Ricky Manresa

Ricky Manresa

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New York
I live in NY and the county I live in doesnt require a license to file jobs. Its been a vision of mine for a long time and I was thinking about starting an LLC and just staying within my county untill I get a license.Anyway just wanted to get some opinions.Stay safe! Do the right thing!
 
There's nothing wrong with starting a company and doing work if you are totally legal to do so. But be careful. Just because you don't need a license to pull permits, doesn't mean you don't need other legal documents. I would check with the local authorities about what is needed to start a business in your area. You also definitely need commercial auto, liability and workman's comp insurance.
 
Ricky Manresa said:
I live in NY and the county I live in doesnt require a license to file jobs. Its been a vision of mine for a long time and I was thinking about starting an LLC and just staying within my county untill I get a license.Anyway just wanted to get some opinions.Stay safe! Do the right thing!
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I live in upstate NY. Not sure where exactly you are, but as you probably know, the majority (geographically) of NY State has no license requirement. Many upstate electricians have no license (because there is none). I had a city of Albany license for a while, which I mostly got just as a professional endeavor so I could say "licensed in NY". I only used it twice, and just let it lapse because I got sick of paying the $300/ year, and Albany is an hour from me so I don't really care to work there anyway. I still have a Massachusetts and Washington state license so I can still say I'm a "licensed electrician". So long story short, it's kinda nice to be able to say you are licensed for the professionalism of it, even though it's not required.
 
LarryFine said:
So, anyone can make plans, apply for and get electrical permits, perform work, and get it inspected? o_O
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Yup, only licensing upstate is in the large cities. Other than those areas, there aren't really electrical permits either. If a building permit is required, them there is a line item for electrical on the building permit which would then need a third party inspection. I have never "pulled a permit" in NY ( except a couple in the city of Albany).
 
Coppersmith said:
There's nothing wrong with starting a company and doing work if you are totally legal to do so. But be careful. Just because you don't need a license to pull permits, doesn't mean you don't need other legal documents. I would check with the local authorities about what is needed to start a business in your area. You also definitely need commercial auto, liability and workman's comp insurance.
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That may explain why nobody advertises an Un-licensed service business in CA, if no one can comply with CA B&P 7048. Who can refuse work => $500.-, much less when that $500 must include material, regardless of who buys it.

Missing legal details could also explain why property insurance claims are frequently void, since CA courts include all material & man hours on site to test the $500 limit for license violations. Since most kitchen & bath remodels are done by contractors with no electrical licenses, much less electrical permits on record, most casualty claims can be voided with no legal challenge.

In CA unlicensed contractors can't legally change a light bulb, if other contractors are on site, much less during remodels, or open permits. Not to mention if the term "Unlicensed" is omitted from business cards, vehicle decals, internet commerce, or any other advertising, per CA B&P 7027.1

Getting a trade license in CA may be simpler than legally sustaining Unlicensed business practices.

Legally advertising my Unlicensed service business in CA certainly has the attention of my State license board, who regularly invite me to sting projects, and apparently can't believe what can be legally accomplished under $500.
 
electrofelon said:
Yup, only licensing upstate is in the large cities. Other than those areas, there aren't really electrical permits either. If a building permit is required, them there is a line item for electrical on the building permit which would then need a third party inspection. I have never "pulled a permit" in NY ( except a couple in the city of Albany).
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I too, upstate, the county I'm in has just like you say electrical on general building permit but also has an electrical permit for if the electrical is not part of a larger build.Third party inspection is required for either permit. All electrical in most of the townships in the counties I'm in are asking for a permit, although some of the "hacks" (handy man and untrained wannabes) around here won't even bother, just do it and hope they dont get caught. Any larger job I will get the third party inspection even if the local township doesn't require permit, one more level of safety and my insurance requires it, as it "gets them" and me "off the hook", as it were, the third party inspections will take some of the liability in event of catastrophic failure. If there is a failure they will also check if 1. Was a permit pulled, 2. Was it inspected. They will always look to "who was the last to touch it" for blame, and getting the above helps in defences. Not speaking from any direct experience, just from others I have known to get bit.
Ricky Manresa said:
I live in NY and the county I live in doesnt require a license to file jobs. Its been a vision of mine for a long time and I was thinking about starting an LLC and just staying within my county untill I get a license.Anyway just wanted to get some opinions.Stay safe! Do the right thing!
Click to expand...
We live in the "wild west" of electrical service and maintenance here, where anyone can put up a shingle and do electrical work, an LLC or license makes no difference to "staying within my county" here. Make sure you get your insurances, you don't want to be doing this sort of work without coverage, life and property is at stake and it can come back to bite you if there is a failure, even with and LLC. Also make sure you get educated and stay updated and stay up to date with the code, technology is always changing, and that will show as you meet with inspectors to check your work, they will notice.
 
And I thought it was lax here in Georgia.....LOL! In Georgia, only one person in the business needs a license. They can have a thousand unlicensed people under them. I don't think there are too many rural areas that don't require permits in one fashion or another in the state. Its mostly for tax generation anyway.
 
Coppersmith said:
There's nothing wrong with starting a company and doing work if you are totally legal to do so. But be careful. Just because you don't need a license to pull permits, doesn't mean you don't need other legal documents. I would check with the local authorities about what is needed to start a business in your area. You also definitely need commercial auto, liability and workman's comp insurance.
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Yea insurance will be a must
 
Fred B said:
I too, upstate, the county I'm in has just like you say electrical on general building permit but also has an electrical permit for if the electrical is not part of a larger build.Third party inspection is required for either permit. All electrical in most of the townships in the counties I'm in are asking for a permit, although some of the "hacks" (handy man and untrained wannabes) around here won't even bother, just do it and hope they dont get caught. Any larger job I will get the third party inspection even if the local township doesn't require permit, one more level of safety and my insurance requires it, as it "gets them" and me "off the hook", as it were, the third party inspections will take some of the liability in event of catastrophic failure. If there is a failure they will also check if 1. Was a permit pulled, 2. Was it inspected. They will always look to "who was the last to touch it" for blame, and getting the above helps in defences. Not speaking from any direct experience, just from others I have known to get bit.

We live in the "wild west" of electrical service and maintenance here, where anyone can put up a shingle and do electrical work, an LLC or license makes no difference to "staying within my county" here. Make sure you get your insurances, you don't want to be doing this sort of work without coverage, life and property is at stake and it can come back to bite you if there is a failure, even with and LLC. Also make sure you get educated and stay updated and stay up to date with the code, technology is always wchanging, and that will show as you meet with inspectors to check your work, they will notice.
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Absolutley..im able to take the test i just need my w2s in order. I was working for a railroad for awhile andmostt cou ties wont accept that exp
 
electrofelon said:
I had a city of Albany license for a while, which I mostly got just as a professional endeavor so I could say "licensed in NY".
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I'm wondering:
1. If you advertised yourself as being licensed (in the areas not requiring a license) as a way to differentiate yourself from the unlicensed electricians?
2. How many potential clients called you because you were licensed and wanted an extra measure of safety?

In my experience, Lee Iacocca was right when he said "safety doesn't sell". My company puts forth a strong safety message and it rarely resonates with clients. On the quality/price spectrum, price shoppers could care less about safety. But I wonder if the right messaging could sway those quality shoppers toward your company. Perhaps something like: "Don't hire an unlicensed hack, when you can hire a licensed professional electrician."
 
Fred B said:
Third party inspection is required for either permit. ... Any larger job I will get the third party inspection even if the local township doesn't require permit, one more level of safety and my insurance requires it...
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I'm curious about these third party inspectors. Sounds like there might be an opportunity to make some money here. Can you become a third party inspector? I assume these guys charge for their services. Do they charge enough to make it worthwhile to do?
 
Coppersmith said:
I'm curious about these third party inspectors. Sounds like there might be an opportunity to make some money here. Can you become a third party inspector? I assume these guys charge for their services. Do they charge enough to make it worthwhile to do?
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Most are retired electricians or just side gig for a working electrician around here. Can't inspect your own work. They mostly work for an inspection company and they dont get to keep the whole fee.
 
Fred B said:
Most are retired electricians or just side gig for a working electrician around here. Can't inspect your own work. They mostly work for an inspection company and they dont get to keep the whole fee.
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What would it take to become an inspection company? If you spend much time on this site, you become a code expert.
 
Coppersmith said:
What would it take to become an inspection company? If you spend much time on this site, you become a code expert.
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I'm not sure I would want to, I imagine insurance liabity would be very high as the inspection agency would be taking on some of the liability of every electrician your inspector checks and validates. Third party inspection allows my premiums to be lower, as some of the liability is passed on.
 
Fred B said:
We live in the "wild west" of electrical service and maintenance here, where anyone can put up a shingle and do electrical work,
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I've been wondering about that. I'm just North of NYC where every town clerk has their hand out for license and permit fees. I'm thinking of moving up West of Albany to maybe Herkimer County. We have relatives in Little Falls. In looking at houses there, I notice wiring that is not up to my standards, like K&T allowed to remain. I could tell the work was definitely done by a professional, not a hack or DIY, but they could have gone a bit farther. I assumed that there was licensing and inspections but since I saw this thread I looked and all I'm seeing is you need to pull a permit for $10. Is that true??

-Hal
 
Coppersmith said:
I'm wondering:
1. If you advertised yourself as being licensed (in the areas not requiring a license) as a way to differentiate yourself from the unlicensed electricians?
2. How many potential clients called you because you were licensed and wanted an extra measure of safety?

In my experience, Lee Iacocca was right when he said "safety doesn't sell". My company puts forth a strong safety message and it rarely resonates with clients. On the quality/price spectrum, price shoppers could care less about safety. But I wonder if the right messaging could sway those quality shoppers toward your company. Perhaps something like: "Don't hire an unlicensed hack, when you can hire a licensed professional electrician."
Click to expand...

Hard to say, I never advertised nor had my name on a vehicle...never even got around to getting business cards. Prolly only been a couple of times I was asked if licensed. I see vans with "licensed" on them sometimes, so those people must have a city license somewhere, or perhaps like me have a license in another state. Some people will put "master electrician" on their van or description.

All the capital region cities reciprocate with each other (Albany, troy, Schenectady). Not sure about the western part of the state like buffalo. You would think everyone would reciprocate with Albany the capital, but most downstate stuff doesn't 😠
 
hbiss said:
I've been wondering about that. I'm just North of NYC where every town clerk has their hand out for license and permit fees. I'm thinking of moving up West of Albany to maybe Herkimer County. We have relatives in Little Falls. In looking at houses there, I notice wiring that is not up to my standards, like K&T allowed to remain. I could tell the work was definitely done by a professional, not a hack or DIY, but they could have gone a bit farther. I assumed that there was licensing and inspections but since I saw this thread I looked and all I'm seeing is you need to pull a permit for $10. Is that true??

-Hal
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I just looked at the city of little falls building permit and they do have an electrical permit for $10. That's funny. I doubt there is one at the town or county level. I assume it's Third party inspection but I don't know for sure.
 
Coppersmith said:
I'm wondering:
1. If you advertised yourself as being licensed (in the areas not requiring a license) as a way to differentiate yourself from the unlicensed electricians?
2. How many potential clients called you because you were licensed and wanted an extra measure of safety?

In my experience, Lee Iacocca was right when he said "safety doesn't sell". My company puts forth a strong safety message and it rarely resonates with clients. On the quality/price spectrum, price shoppers could care less about safety. But I wonder if the right messaging could sway those quality shoppers toward your company. Perhaps something like: "Don't hire an unlicensed hack, when you can hire a licensed professional electrician."
Click to expand...
Lol id feel like a dick for lying.I can say "profesional electrician whos insured" hopefully i can obtain my cities license soon
 
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