Stolen wire hypothetical

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myspark said:
In CA, a contractor can legally collect ten percent of the contract price from the homeowner upon signing the contract. This is so the contractor is protected in this scenario.

Once the material is delivered or installed in the premises, it becomes under the watch of the homeowner. . . it legally becomes the property of the homeowner by virtue of the ten percent “down payment” received.

If the incident is contested by the homeowner, there is a law that protects contractor called mechanics lien law.
Further belligerence on the part of the homeowner, could force the contractor to file a lien against the property which homeowners and insurance companies don't want to hear.
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IDK about insurance, but would think a mortgage company wouldn't want to see that.
 
kwired said:
IDK about insurance, but would think a mortgage company wouldn't want to see that.
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Not all homeowners carry mortgage therefore no need for mortgage financier.. I don't have mortgage payment for years now.
I paid all my debts a year before I retired. Most retirees like me don't carry mortgage.

Most insurance companies don't insure properties with encumbrances ie being litigated in court as in the case of a contractor's lien.
 
myspark said:
Not all homeowners carry mortgage therefore no need for mortgage financier.. I don't have mortgage payment for years now.
I paid all my debts a year before I retired. Most retirees like me don't carry mortgage.

Most insurance companies don't insure properties with encumbrances ie being litigated in court as in the case of a contractor's lien.
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well, anyone, even the lowliest apprentice, has recourse of a mechanics lein
in california.

when i was a lowly muppet, first year, shortly after the discovery of electricity,
i worked on a housing tract and benefits were not paid by the contractor for
several months. i asked the apprenticeship director if this was normal. not for
a state indentured apprentice it isn't, he replied.

as i'd boxed a tract of houses, and worked in each of them, briefly, the business
agent placed a lein *every single house* in the tract. Shea homes delivered a cashier's
check for all my back benefits, and everyone else's on the crew to the union hall
the next day, and took it out of the contractors draw.

so, a mechanic can file a lien on your property, and it'll sit there until you sell the property.
it'll also sit on your credit profile, etc.
 
This happened to me once. And it was in a very nice neighborhood. Turns out it was another trade on the job who stole it.

I was told that once the material is installed, the owner of the property owns the material. They paid me to rewire the place. IDK if they files a claim with their insurance.

Digressing just a bit, because they own the material after it is installed, you cannot remove it in a case such as a payment dispute. (I've heard people threaten often that they will go remove their "stuff", if they don't get paid by a certain date.)
 
Guys just remember we are not lawyers. I would recommend talking to either your insurance company or a lawyer or both.

I had this happen years ago and I worked for the builder so his insurance paid for me to redo the work. I am guessing not all builders or homeowners have the insurance to cover it.
 
JohnE said:
This happened to me once. And it was in a very nice neighborhood. Turns out it was another trade on the job who stole it.

I was told that once the material is installed, the owner of the property owns the material. They paid me to rewire the place. IDK if they files a claim with their insurance.

Digressing just a bit, because they own the material after it is installed, you cannot remove it in a case such as a payment dispute. (I've heard people threaten often that they will go remove their "stuff", if they don't get paid by a certain date.)
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I remember reading (I believe on this site) some time ago a story of an old mason that used to lay a pane of glass in his fireplace flues, blocking air flow through the flue. When he received final payment he dropped a brick down the flue to break the glass.

One time a customer that had not paid all of his bill complained that the fireplace flue didn't work, he told them he would fix it after he received all of his payment, and all it took was to break that glass when he did fix it.
 
kwired said:
I remember reading (I believe on this site) some time ago a story of an old mason that used to lay a pane of glass in his fireplace flues, blocking air flow through the flue. When he received final payment he dropped a brick down the flue to break the glass.

One time a customer that had not paid all of his bill complained that the fireplace flue didn't work, he told them he would fix it after he received all of his payment, and all it took was to break that glass when he did fix it.
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We need someone to invent the circuit breaker with a built-in timer that shuts off the power to it's circuit in 30 days unless it receives a coded radio signal from a transmitter within 500 feet (i.e. from the road outside the house.) :) Get check, drive by, transmit.
 
Coppersmith said:
We need someone to invent the circuit breaker with a built-in timer that shuts off the power to it's circuit in 30 days unless it receives a coded radio signal from a transmitter within 500 feet (i.e. from the road outside the house.) :) Get check, drive by, transmit.
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We can do this now with power logic breakers and some additional components.

But I think it’s only legal for the utilities to do this with their smart meters


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brantmacga said:
But I think it’s only legal for the utilities to do this with their smart meters
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Nobody ever reads the fine print on my contracts. I'm pretty sure it's legal if they agree to it.;)

"All circuits installed will automatically be disabled after 30 days if payment is not received in full. To re-enable circuit(s), full payment plus a $150.00 re-enablement fee must be paid."



P.S. I know a computer programmer who sold software he wrote with such a timer built in. The software would stop working after 90 days (IIRC) unless a code was input. Several customers were surprised FWIH. This was back 35 years ago. This is similar to the way a lot of "try before you buy" software works now.
 
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Coppersmith said:
Nobody ever reads the fine print on my contracts. I'm pretty sure it's legal if they agree to it.;)

"All circuits installed will automatically be disabled after 30 days if payment is not received in full. To re-enable circuit(s), full payment plus a $150.00 re-enablement fee must be paid."
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Hmmmm...... I wonder if it would be a possible to write a lease-to-own contract on an electrical installation?


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Coppersmith said:
We need someone to invent the circuit breaker with a built-in timer that shuts off the power to it's circuit in 30 days unless it receives a coded radio signal from a transmitter within 500 feet (i.e. from the road outside the house.) :) Get check, drive by, transmit.
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Some states don't allow this. If the homeowner requires medical devices to continue a healthy life, disconnecting power (or other utilities) could be life threatening.
 
kwired said:
Sure, but most EC's aren't in the lending/leasing business and don't want to be.
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Yeh, but this would be like a single lease payment or as soon as the job is finished you pay the lease payment. Then if you don’t, we take our stuff back; legally.


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brantmacga said:
Yeh, but this would be like a single lease payment or as soon as the job is finished you pay the lease payment. Then if you don’t, we take our stuff back; legally.


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Which is what rent to own type stores do, but their goods are typically personal property and not something incorporated into real estate like most the items EC's end up selling/installing.
 
Right or wrong I have reclaimed things before. One was on a dairy farm that went bankrupt and owners left the area altogether. Looking around while I was there, I don't think I was the only one to do so, there was other equipment missing.
 
I've heard (not sure if this is true) that the installed material does not become theirs until you leave the property. In other words, if you do an install, ask for payment while on the property, and they refuse, you can walk over and rip out what you just put in.

A plumber told me he had this situation and wrapped a chain around his bumper hitch and pulled out a large section of outdoor pipe.
 
That happened to me once. I had finished wiring the house on a Friday and just had some small stuff left, I came back Monday and it was like as if I hadn't ran any wire. They took it all.


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Kind of throws a wrench into the gears when customer says they didn't want that light installed where you put it or something of that nature - I can put in a new one for you but can't take out the first one...
 
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