strain relief or pvc sleeve for exterior cords

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Dennis Alwon

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Chapel Hill, NC
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Retired Electrical Contractor
The idea of splicing the wires is a great idea since you could then have the alarm box on the house rather than sticking up in the yard. I don't know why they won't allow it - maybe cause they haven't thought about it-- I bet it has something to do with methane gases.

Now the problem of violating 225.30 or violating 210.4(B) which do you choose. I am writing a proposal for this as we speak.
 

iwire

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The idea of splicing the wires is a great idea since you could then have the alarm box on the house rather than sticking up in the yard. I don't know why they won't allow it - maybe cause they haven't thought about it-- I bet it has something to do with methane gases.


I am doubting that is the case as the concentrations of methane will be very low.
 

Dennis Alwon

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Chapel Hill, NC
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I am doubting that is the case as the concentrations of methane will be very low.

I know that was the reason for not allowing the recep. installed in the tank. Whether it is correct or not that was their reasoning. The gases also would destroy the receptacles.
 

renosteinke

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Location
NE Arkansas
I've done a fair deal of septic work, and this is time to "listen up."

First off, never put connections in the pit if you can avoid it. Sewage gas will corrode / rot everything, and the goop will get in everywhere.

If you must have a connection in the pit, an all-PVC gasketed box with rubber-grommet, plastic body cord grips is the only way to go. Use one box for the floats and another for the power. Feed each box with a BIG pipe.

The best method is to have an in-ground box next to the pit, and two BIG, sloping conduits to the tank (one for floats, one for switches). Do not have any bends in the pipe- especially if the pipe is of any length. Do not try to seal the pipe. Make sure the box has a proper bed of gravel under it. Stuff WILL get in, just make sure it can also get out.

I stress BIG pipe because the rubber cord jackets will swell a great deal, and cement themselves to the inside of the pipe. If you've made you connections in the pit, you'll want to run the usual THHN/THWN wires.

Wire connections need to be 'blessed' with Scotch-kote. Just dip the wire nuts in it, then point them 'up' for drainage.

If your installation has a receptacle IN the pit, well, you have my pity. Replace the Bell box with a PVC one, the receptacle with a corrosion-resistant one, and locate the GFI somewhere else. Write a note on the cover giving the location of the GFI.

If you're forced to have connections 'flying' in the pit - common when replacing floats, etc., leave LOTS of extra wire, so you can work on them outside the pit. Use zip-ties to hang them out of the way. Ideal makes a very nice connector for UF that has connections for four wires and a very hefty, sealing piece of shrink tube. Floats can use crimp connectors and PREMIUM shrink tube.
 

iwire

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So in other words, do it like you do it and ignore any silly code rules because you know better?

Who in the world makes a 'flying splice' other than for temps and claims to be an electrician?
 

renosteinke

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Location
NE Arkansas
I suppose it's a matter of terminolgy, as well as terminations.

It's also a simple matter of reality. Quite often, the original installer used the smallest possible pipe, or even no pipe at all, when he ran the wires from the in-ground box to the pit. As mentioned earlier, the cables quickly become impossible to remove. At that point, your only option is to make a splice near where the cables enter the pit and do your best to seal them, using the same techniques you might use at a service connection.

If someone has found a way to avoid 'flying splices' at service connections, I'd love to hear it.

The alternative to having sealed 'flying' splices is to have a connection box of some sort in the pit. The first problem is that you are rarely the one who designed the thing in the first place, and have to live with what you find.

Having a box in the pit introduces all manner of problems. Not only is space lacking, and mounting the box is an issue of its' own .... but that box will never seal the connections as well as a good individual splice; the box always rusts away, always fills with muck. Have you had your hepatitis shots?

Another detail to consider is that the pits often have the pumps replaced. You're going to have to open that splice on a regular basis. You might as well consider that when you are making your design choices.
 

stevenje

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Location
Yachats Oregon
the box always rusts away, always fills with muck. Have you had your hepatitis shots?
.

Our company has one journeyman who does service calls on existing systems. He went on vacation for a week and the shop sent me out to a service call. After I fixed the problem I informed the boss that it would be the last septic system service call I would ever do. Herding turds ain't my game.
 

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
If someone has found a way to avoid 'flying splices' at service connections, I'd love to hear it.

We are not talking about service connections are we?

The alternative to having sealed 'flying' splices is to have a connection box of some sort in the pit.

It sure is.


The first problem is that you are rarely the one who designed the thing in the first place, and have to live with what you find.

Life is harsh.

Having a box in the pit introduces all manner of problems. Not only is space lacking, and mounting the box is an issue of its' own .... but that box will never seal the connections as well as a good individual splice; the box always rusts away, always fills with muck. Have you had your hepatitis shots?

PVC or stainless steel rarely rust away, I agree stuff could get in the box. Use your underwater splicing kits.



Another detail to consider is that the pits often have the pumps replaced. You're going to have to open that splice on a regular basis. You might as well consider that when you are making your design choices.

So in a nut shell, if the code is hard to comply with just ignore it.
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
I seem to havehit a nerve ....

"Use underwater splice kits." Maybe that's the source of confusion. Ithought that's what I was saying; I recall mentioning various waterproof shrink-tubing, etc.

Are we restricting the term 'flying splice' to describe individual conductors, unsupported, with simple wire nuts? Then, Iagree, and have never suggested that as the method.

On the other hand, what if by 'flying' I mean the splice is in the cable, within the pit, and uses a UL-listed splicing assembly exactly as intended? Where's the code violation - let alone this completely unwarranted assumption that I either have contempt for the NEC or
a cavalier attitude? I think an apology is due.

Now,for the floats, a different element enters the discussion:low voltage. I submit that when you use practices that are well established (waterproof shrink tubes, crimp connectors, self-fusing tape, etc.) you're meeting code. Nor does the NEC require low voltage splices to be in a box.

As for the completely uncalled-for 'life is harsh' comment .... one of the problems with having a box in the pit is that it will - by design of the pit itself - obstruct the access cover. There simply isn't room. This is one reason that so many pits have the cords pass through a length of pipe to an adjacent in-the-ground box. This is why my original answer addressed the topic from several approaches.

Indeed, given my choice (and returning to the OP), I would prefer a BIG ...way-oversized by NEC rules for wire fill ... PAIR of pipes from the pittoan adjacent box, with no attempt made to seal, just designed to drain. Any arrangement that includes a box IN the pit is a bad design. Yet, there is no code rule against such foolishness.

Yet, therin lies the problem. All manner of pious souls will point to the 'wet location' Bell box and code-sized pipe, and assert that 'it meets code, so it must be good.' Such a view is contradicted by my observations.

Regarding boxes in pits, that somehow manage to keep the wires dry, another memory just popped up: insulation colors. For whatever reason, wire insulation loses its' color in even the best-constructed pits. Exactly what gas causes this, I don't know; I do know that it's often impossible (even by cutting back the insulation a little) to tell a black wire from a white or green one. "Ringing the wires out" is almost routine.

I discussed receptacles in pits for two reasons. The first is: they exist. Less obvious is that you are rarely in any position to determine whether the water pumped is 'gray water' or 'black water,' or if the flow is large enough for classifiedlocation rules to apply. I ignored that aspect as, IMO, outside the scope of this thread.
 
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