strapping romex

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Jay Dubz

Member
A wire tie with a screw hole should work fine and should pass. There are a plethora of straps that are UL listed that should work fine, you just have to explore your options.

40938_300.jpg


* High-Performance Cable Ties

* Ty-Rap(R)
* 316 stainless steel locking device in 6/6 nylon head maintains the right tension.
* Smooth, low-profile, no-notch body design is less stress-sensitive than notched ties, and infinitely adjustable. No-slip tail allows easier grasping for secure tensioning. Ribbed and stippled inner body keeps ties from slipping on the bundle. Black, weather-resistant, outdoor ties withstand temperatures ranging from -40 Degree to 185 DegreeF, except Thomas & Betts TY25MX-A and Thomas & Betts TY27MX-A, which withstand -40 Degree to 221 DegreeF.

* Natural-color ties are plenum rated
* Corrosion-resistant
* UL Registered under Standard 1565
* Qualified under OPC 23190
 
LJSMITH1

LJSMITH1

Senior Member
Location
Stratford, CT
curt swartz said:
I have never seen a listed romex staple or pipe strap.
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Really?? Briscon products makes them as well as many others...

http://www.brisconelectric.com/STAPLES.htm#UL

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Conduit straps are also listed:

http://www.bptfittings.com/Catalog/ProductSpecification.aspx?CategoryId=33&FamilyId=251&ProductId=907-S

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Just because you haven't seen one, does not mean they don't exist.

BTW...No conduit straps are not listed for NM cable...Just specific stackers staples, and one hole plastic straps, and maybe ty-wraps..

http://www.handystraps.com/HDYsht.pdf
 
mxslick

mxslick

Senior Member
Location
SE Idaho
I think LJsmith1 hit it on the head, the conduit strap itself, is not specifically listed for use with NM cable and that's what the inspector is going by.

Even though the other Code citations say NM can be secured with a "strap", without clarifying what "straps" are permissible, that creates a problem of interpretation.


With that said, if I were the inspector in the OP's case I would pass the job, as long as the method of securing the NM to the straps doesn't cut into the sheath.
 
LJSMITH1

LJSMITH1

Senior Member
Location
Stratford, CT
George Stolz said:
I wouldn't immediately reach for a one hole to secure romex, but...



...I don't see where the straps or staples are required to be listed. So long as you can convince the inspector and/or AHJ that it's acceptable, then it's fine, 90.4.

I'd just drive a staple into the stud (without securing a cable with it), and secure the cables to the staple with a zip tie. Done.
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Well...here is yet another example of using anything for any purpose - as long as it 'works'. What is the purpose of listing products, if this is acceptable? Why not use a piece of old nylon strapping across the romex and secure it with two drywall screws? Or better yet, use a protector plate bent over the romex and secure it with nails.

Ultimately, it all comes down to the AHJ and what they will "approve"....A listing makes it easy as long as the product that is listed is being used in the application for which it is listed. I don't understand why this is so hard for folks to understand?
 
raider1

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
LJSMITH1 said:
Well...here is yet another example of using anything for any purpose - as long as it 'works'. What is the purpose of listing products, if this is acceptable? Why not use a piece of old nylon strapping across the romex and secure it with two drywall screws? Or better yet, use a protector plate bent over the romex and secure it with nails.

Ultimately, it all comes down to the AHJ and what they will "approve"....A listing makes it easy as long as the product that is listed is being used in the application for which it is listed. I don't understand why this is so hard for folks to understand?
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Are ty-wraps listed for use as NM cable supports or straps? Are they required to be?

Again, the code does not require that NM supports be listed, only approved.

Chris
 
LJSMITH1

LJSMITH1

Senior Member
Location
Stratford, CT
raider1 said:
Are ty-wraps listed for use as NM cable supports or straps? Are they required to be?

Again, the code does not require that NM supports be listed, only approved.

Chris
Click to expand...


This is a circular argument. An AHJ approval, in many cases, will rely solely on a Listed product as evidence of meeting a standard that defines the performance and design characteristics of the product's intended use. This is why many fittings (especially cable) are specifically designed to be used with specific configurations/sizes of cable. The label on the packaging is required to indicate the listed use of the product (i.e. "use with 10/2 to 14/3 NM cable only"). In that case, does it mean you can also use it with MC/AC cable just because it seems to work OK?

IMHO...If an inspector requires a listed staple or strap, so be it. It's their decision which does not necessarily need an actual code article to support.
 
N

nyerinfl

Senior Member
Location
Broward Co.
Jay Dubz said:
A wire tie with a screw hole should work fine and should pass. There are a plethora of straps that are UL listed that should work fine, you just have to explore your options.

40938_300.jpg


* High-Performance Cable Ties

* Ty-Rap(R)
* 316 stainless steel locking device in 6/6 nylon head maintains the right tension.
* Smooth, low-profile, no-notch body design is less stress-sensitive than notched ties, and infinitely adjustable. No-slip tail allows easier grasping for secure tensioning. Ribbed and stippled inner body keeps ties from slipping on the bundle. Black, weather-resistant, outdoor ties withstand temperatures ranging from -40 Degree to 185 DegreeF, except Thomas & Betts TY25MX-A and Thomas & Betts TY27MX-A, which withstand -40 Degree to 221 DegreeF.

* Natural-color ties are plenum rated
* Corrosion-resistant
* UL Registered under Standard 1565
* Qualified under OPC 23190
Click to expand...


The first time I got called on this issue I used these type of zip ties in addition to using the one hole straps. The wall is now being ripped down so I can get a CJ on these romexes, the whole thing is ridiculous.

resistance - I'm not the owner, I'm the contractor. Sometimes getting a chief involved only creates more problems.

Also anyone know a code that says undercabinet lighting can not be daisy chained and must be run back to a junction point? Typically I do it that way but the sink is in an island and he also has a problem with this.
 
N

nyerinfl

Senior Member
Location
Broward Co.
LJSMITH1 said:
This is a circular argument. An AHJ approval, in many cases, will rely solely on a Listed product as evidence of meeting a standard that defines the performance and design characteristics of the product's intended use. This is why many fittings (especially cable) are specifically designed to be used with specific configurations/sizes of cable. The label on the packaging is required to indicate the listed use of the product (i.e. "use with 10/2 to 14/3 NM cable only"). In that case, does it mean you can also use it with MC/AC cable just because it seems to work OK?

IMHO...If an inspector requires a listed staple or strap, so be it. It's their decision which does not necessarily need an actual code article to support.
Click to expand...

My job is not to prove my installation is correct, it is the inspectors job to prove it wrong, that is what they get paid for, unfortunately lots of times I get to pay for their opinions. Product literature? fine. NEC? fine. Show me where it says I can't.
 
electricmanscott

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
LJSMITH1 said:
Well...here is yet another example of using anything for any purpose - as long as it 'works'. What is the purpose of listing products, if this is acceptable? Why not use a piece of old nylon strapping across the romex and secure it with two drywall screws? Or better yet, use a protector plate bent over the romex and secure it with nails.
Click to expand...

Why not use any of those things. :-?

I use romex sheath and two staples sometimes to secure multiple cables.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
LJSMITH1 said:
Well...here is yet another example of using anything for any purpose - as long as it 'works'. What is the purpose of listing products, if this is acceptable? Why not use a piece of old nylon strapping across the romex and secure it with two drywall screws? Or better yet, use a protector plate bent over the romex and secure it with nails.
Click to expand...

Exactly ........ why not?

If it secures the NM and does not damage the cable why not?

There is surely a reason the NEC does not require a listing for NM supports.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I can use a nail and bend it over to strap NM. IMO the inspector is wrong unless your straps are digging into the NM
 
JohnJ0906

JohnJ0906

Senior Member
Location
Baltimore, MD
nyerinfl said:
I have an inspector really giving me a hard time about strapping romex. The issue is that I used 1 hole straps, anywhere from an MC strap to 1/2" emt strap to secure some romex running down a narrow channel, no other means is available (staples, CJs, stakits, etc.), doesn't work. Personally I've used one hole straps to secure romex for as long as I can remember and never had a problem, I cited 334.80 where it states specifcally straps in the paragraph and he still rejects it without any fact based code or literature. His solution is to rip down a wall (this is a remodel) just so I can get a different type of strap. I strongly believe I'm right, anyone know why straps would be unacceptable?
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Why don't you use straps designed for romex?
 
N

nyerinfl

Senior Member
Location
Broward Co.
JohnJ0906 said:
Size of the wiring compartment, perhaps? :-?
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That was the only thing I could think of, but at the same time he doesn't know what type of light I will use. Just another 'this is how we do it in my county' type inspector.

I've actually never used those straps you posted, I will remember that for the future.
 
2

220/221

Senior Member
Location
AZ
I would have stood my ground.





I use romex sheath and two staples sometimes to secure multiple cables.
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I do that all the time. Recycle/reuse. Green technology. Get with the program :D

And now tell us it was "designed to be used that way "
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I designed it and it works perfectly. It holds the cables in place, away fron the studs, it's insulated, readily available. What more could you ask for?

I don't need some clown in a lab to make every decision for me. I can handle the easy stuff.
 
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