Stray Voltage

[Little Bill]

I found the problem, but since this is the "Troubleshooting" forum I will let a few more people chime in as to what they think. I will give some more info though.
The stray voltage was real. I read 120V from a metal water spigot to anything around it that was metal, including building steel, garage door track, etc. I used the loZ function on my meter to eliminate ghost voltage. I even took my pigtail socket with a light bulb and it lit the bulb to full brightness to further substantiate the readings.
The voltage would go away with the main turned off. Now full disclosure, I didn't actually personally turn each breaker off but the tenant was doing that and the voltage remained. It only went away with the main off. Also, this may be suspect in that every circuit was turned off since the voltage would stop with the main off. The main was an old fused disconnect that fed a MLO panel and a couple of other fused disconnects.

 

[James L]

Now full disclosure, I didn't actually personally turn each breaker off but the tenant was doing that and the voltage remained. It only went away with the main off. Also, this may be suspect in that every circuit was turned off since the voltage would stop with the main off.

I would suspect not every breaker was being turned off, or maybe one didn't function properly.

...fed a MLO panel and a couple of other fused disconnects.

That bit of info might have made a big difference

 

[Little Bill]

Anyone else wish to take an educated guess?

 

[sw_ross]

I’m interested in the findings...!

 

[ptonsparky]

Broken fused disconnect that never turned off. Possibly to the water heater. No water pipe bond.

 

[Little Bill]

I'll see if anyone else wants to chime in tomorrow, then I will reveal what I found.

 

[oldsparky52]

I'll see if anyone else wants to chime in tomorrow, then I will reveal what I found.

You are such a tease. I am going to put cheese in my mouth and wait for your response with baited breath.

 

[Dsg319]

I'll see if anyone else wants to chime in tomorrow, then I will reveal what I found.

It’s tomorrow!!!!!

 

[ptonsparky]

It’s tomorrow!!!!!

and I'm on my second cup of coffee.

 

[Hv&Lv]

Still waiting....

 

[ptonsparky]

Maybe after my noon nap.

 

[Little Bill]

OK, here goes........... The findings were what was already suspected by me and others. After I verified the voltage was real I checked other places around the building for the stray voltage. I only found it at this one metal water pipe. I traced the pipe through a block wall and saw it came out at a small 120V water heater. I unplugged the water heater and the voltage went away. As far as it not going away unless the main was off, I suspect it was fed from either a fused disconnect or, as was mentioned, a breaker was missed or bad. I didn't have time to explore that further.

Anyway, I checked for a shorted heating element but it was ok. I removed the wiring compartment cover and found corroded wires, rust, moisture, etc. Biggest thing was the EGC was not connected. Don't know if it was at one time and just came loose from the corrosion or never connected. But the picture will give you an idea of the mess the heater was in.



I told the building owner what I found and told him he should replace the water heater. He agreed and called for a (supposedly) plumber. Here's the part that irritates me. The owner called me after I left and said the plumber said everything was good with the heater.

Now I had also found that there was no electrode or GEC, so I drove some rods and ran a GEC. The plumber was told that and he thinks that's why they were getting shocked. POCO hadn't come yet to connect the GEC to the grounded conductor at the weatherhead. I told the owner I would come by Monday to explain to him the missing GEC had nothing to do with the shocking and why not. The water pipes inside are a mixture of CPVC and copper. Since I don't know where the water pipe enters the building, I didn't bond anything yet. I will look into that later. My goal for the moment was to find and remove the stray voltage.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

Plumbers.

 

[Eddie702]

I had one once with a bad neutral and other issues. With the meter pulled out (no pwr in house) I had 5 amps with my meter clamped around the water pipe apparently coming through the earth to the water pipe. POCO didn't believe me but they had 5 trucks working in the neighborhood when I left

 

[oldsparky52]

I had one once with a bad neutral and other issues. With the meter pulled out (no pwr in house) I had 5 amps with my meter clamped around the water pipe apparently coming through the earth to the water pipe. POCO didn't believe me but they had 5 trucks working in the neighborhood when I left

Did you ever find out what the PoCo found? Did they ever find the problem?

 

[ptonsparky]

Did you ever find out what the PoCo found? Did they ever find the problem?

From past experience, and I like our area POCOs, everything is good on their end but those missing pole grounds you reported, are suddenly repaired.

 

[Eddie702]

Did you ever find out what the PoCo found? Did they ever find the problem?

if I remember right I had about 5 amps on the water pipe. They were out at all the poles in the neighborhood remaking connections. When I left it had dropped a couple of amps and they were still working on it

 

[Jraef]

I'll vote for damaged water heater element, a failed water heater breaker (or water heater on the outside legs of a skinny quad and not fully shut off) and no plumbing bond.

Jon

I with you in this, and that there are feed through lugs on the main panel to a sub panel he is unaware of, with the water heater being fed off of that sub panel. That’s why when he turns off all of the branch breaker HE CAN SEE, the meter still turns, unless he turns off the Main. The Main breaker of course feeds that sub panel but he is unaware of it. I’ve seen that (unknown sub panels) on several occasions.