Stray Voltage

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bro15381

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Wonder if any of you out there has ever experianced this.... I have some automatic waterers at home for the horses. One of them is getting 5 volts. The horses refuse to drink out of it. I have installed four ground rods and drilled and tapped the stainless waterer bowl and still read 5 volts to ground. I even took a piece of wire #12 and stripped the end of it, put it under the 10/32 screw grounding the bowl and put it in the water. Still 5 volts to ground when testing between the ground screw and the other end of the meter in the water. Shut the power off to the water heater (located under the bowl) and still read 5 volts. I am using plastic pipe from the well to the Nelson waterer. The other waterer is fine....??? :confused:
 
wbalsam1 said:
I don't think the horse cares what tester he uses. I'll bet he still won't drink.:smile:
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Point taken, but do you all believe it???? Do you really think an induced voltage of 4-5V's will stray away livestock? I ask because I simply don't know, and would like to be informed. I don't see it regardless of the resistance to the animal.
 
Stray Voltage

76nemo said:
Point taken, but do you all believe it???? Do you really think an induced voltage of 4-5V's will stray away livestock? I ask because I simply don't know, and would like to be informed. I don't see it regardless of the resistance to the animal.
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They will not drink from it. They approach it and as soon as their nose touches the water they jump back. I know it is nothing to us but we do not have four feet firmly being held down by 1200 lbs. It is being fed with 120 volt, just for the bowl heater.... there is three ground rods at the house, a grd. wire with the circuits to the barn and now four grd. rods at the barn. All tied together... And no, horses do not care what type of meter you use. just because you use a low impedence meter does not mean the voltage is not there, just means you do not read it... This has been driving me crazy. Thanks
 
They will not drink from it. They approach it and as soon as their nose touches the water they jump back. I know it is nothing to us but we do not have four feet firmly being held down by 1200 lbs. It is being fed with 120 volt, just for the bowl heater.... there is three ground rods at the house, a grd. wire with the circuits to the barn and now four grd. rods at the barn. All tied together... And no, horses do not care what type of meter you use. just because you use a low impedence meter does not mean the voltage is not there, just means you do not read it... This has been driving me crazy. Thanks
 
Some work done here in New Zealand in the late fifties / early sixties illustrated that stray currents cause the milk output of a cow to drop to 40% of what it should be simply because the cows dont like getting shocked when they drink. Thus in rural land we are fairly paranoid about stray currents.

The problem is that the bonded metalwork is at a different potential to the soil or concrete of the barn. If you cannot identify the actual problem then you will need to make whatever the horse stands on and the water to be at the same potential. Same problem and solutions of equipotential grids and swimming pools.

Start your analysis by disconnecting everything electrical from the feeder (grounds and all) and see if the problem goes away. If it doesn't, dicsonnect the plumbing as well: well water is often fairly conductive, and conductive water in PVC pipes is to all effects and purposes a (lousy) wire, and can import a potential from elsewhere.
 
76nemo said:
Point taken, but do you all believe it???? Do you really think an induced voltage of 4-5V's will stray away livestock? I ask because I simply don't know, and would like to be informed. I don't see it regardless of the resistance to the animal.
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It is a fact that very low currents will affect livestock. See 547.9 taking note of the FPN to 547.9(C)

Then read 547.10.

Knowing that you frequent Flukes website, Fluke had a newsletter/case study on this a while back.

Roger
 
76nemo said:
Point taken, but do you all believe it???? Do you really think an induced voltage of 4-5V's will stray away livestock? I ask because I simply don't know, and would like to be informed. I don't see it regardless of the resistance to the animal.
Click to expand...

Picture putting both your bare hands and feet in soaked muddy ground then sticking your tongue in tub of live water. At the very least it might make you drink less water. :smile:
 
iwire said:
Picture putting both your bare hands and feet in soaked muddy ground then sticking your tongue in tub of live water. At the very least it might make you drink less water. :smile:
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I wonder if this "electric shock therapy" would help me lose weight? Maybe I could juice the refrig up a bit.....(protecting the circuit, of course)...:D
AFCI = Affects Fred's Caloric Intake
 
If you ahve access to IEEE documents, then this paper is interesting:

Neutral-To-Earth Voltage and Ground Current Effects in Livestock Facilities
Gustafson, R.J. Albertson, V.D.
University of Minnesota
This paper appears in: IEEE Transactions on Power Apparatus and Systems
Publication Date: July 1982
Volume: PAS-101 , Issue: 7
On page(s): 2090 - 2095
Number of Pages: 2090 - 2095
ISSN: 0018-9510
Digital Object Identifier: 10.1109/TPAS.1982.317425
Current Version Published: 2007-02-26

Abstract
Problems of animal health and production attributed to voltages between the grounded-neutral system and true earth have risen sharply in rural areas. Animal production problems, particularly with dairy cows, have been observed at voltage levels of 0.75 to 1.0 V ac. A number of possible sources of excessive voltage have been identified from both on-farm and off-farm sources. The two principal voltage sources in non-faulty systems are discussed. The importance of impedance and current flow through various system components is demonstrated. Methods of mitigation related to the principal source are discussed. Safety considerations for farmstead neutral isolation are presented.
 
bro, What happens when you disconnect 'all' the ground rods from the metal drinking bowl?

How did you turn off power to the heater, unit switch on heater or disconnect the cord

from the recpt?? Is there an EGC with the circuit conductors that supply power to the

heater?? Could the heater be defective and be 'leaking' this current??
 
Let me guess... these waterers have heaters in them, right? If not, we'll go on to the more complicated step 2.

99% of the time, the "stray" voltage is from stuff right on your own farm.
 
bro15381 said:
Wonder if any of you out there has ever experianced this.... I have some automatic waterers at home for the horses. One of them is getting 5 volts. The horses refuse to drink out of it. I have installed four ground rods and drilled and tapped the stainless waterer bowl and still read 5 volts to ground. I even took a piece of wire #12 and stripped the end of it, put it under the 10/32 screw grounding the bowl and put it in the water. Still 5 volts to ground when testing between the ground screw and the other end of the meter in the water. Shut the power off to the water heater (located under the bowl) and still read 5 volts. I am using plastic pipe from the well to the Nelson waterer. The other waterer is fine....??? :confused:
Click to expand...

What you should have figured out by now is that ground rods do not help. You need a good equipment ground from source to load. You need to make sure the element is good and the underground should be megged. The problem may actually be a different branch circuit or feeder. Shut things off one at a time until the voltage drops then reverse the order and watch again.

I had a customer do very much what Iwire described and wasn't really convinced, until he touched his tongue to the water, that he had a problem.
 
bro15381 said:
Wonder if any of you out there has ever experianced this.... I have some automatic waterers at home for the horses. One of them is getting 5 volts. The horses refuse to drink out of it. I have installed four ground rods and drilled and tapped the stainless waterer bowl and still read 5 volts to ground. I even took a piece of wire #12 and stripped the end of it, put it under the 10/32 screw grounding the bowl and put it in the water. Still 5 volts to ground when testing between the ground screw and the other end of the meter in the water. Shut the power off to the water heater (located under the bowl) and still read 5 volts. I am using plastic pipe from the well to the Nelson waterer. The other waterer is fine....??? :confused:
Click to expand...

check the other automatic waterers it maybe the one thats leaking the voltage..winter is comming do this units have electric heaters on them? .if not look at the neutral at the house/barn (panel,meter.taps)
 
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