Stupid Question
- Thread starter kalmangt
- Start date
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charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Stupid Question
Aluminum wire is dangerous if you don't know how to handle it properly. Do yourself and you family a big favor and get a qualified electrician to work with aluminum for you. If you do not, I would bet you will have a fire in the future.
Aluminum wire is dangerous if you don't know how to handle it properly. Do yourself and you family a big favor and get a qualified electrician to work with aluminum for you. If you do not, I would bet you will have a fire in the future.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Stupid Question
May I ask what you believe a ?ground couple? to be? Are you trying to create one, or are you trying to avoid creating one? And are you speaking of joining two wires INSIDE a junction box, or joining them TO the junction box itself? I guess the answer to your last question is, "No, it does not make sense." But as ?the other Charlie? has said, you are treading on potentially dangerous territory. Are you sure you want to be doing this yourselves?
physis
Senior Member
Re: Stupid Question
It's really hard to help in a situation like this because it's to easy for the imformation to be misunderstood or misapplied and you might end up thinking you're doing something right when your actually doing it wrong.
If you are going to go ahead and do it yourselves anyway at the very least get a good book on basic electrical and look at it for at least a couple days befor starting.
It's really a good idea to have a professional take a look at what your doing.
It's really hard to help in a situation like this because it's to easy for the imformation to be misunderstood or misapplied and you might end up thinking you're doing something right when your actually doing it wrong.
If you are going to go ahead and do it yourselves anyway at the very least get a good book on basic electrical and look at it for at least a couple days befor starting.
It's really a good idea to have a professional take a look at what your doing.
Re: Stupid Question
kalmangt: Use key word "Aluminum Wire" hit go button. Theres all the information needed about aluminum wire.
Also go to http://www.inspect-ny.com/
kalmangt: Use key word "Aluminum Wire" hit go button. Theres all the information needed about aluminum wire.
Also go to http://www.inspect-ny.com/
marissa2
Senior Member
- Location
- Connecticut
Re: Stupid Question
If the house was built in the early 70's aluminum wire was used a lot, befor they found out about the problems with it. But like what was said befor you have to be carefull when using copper and aluminum together.
If the house was built in the early 70's aluminum wire was used a lot, befor they found out about the problems with it. But like what was said befor you have to be carefull when using copper and aluminum together.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Stupid Question
Physis, aluminum is a great conductor. The electric utilities have gone almost totally with aluminum conductors. The problem is with the old aluminum alloys and the way they were handled. The new alloys are much better and will allow the knowledgeable electrician to save the customer a lot of money without sacrificing quality of installation.
Even with the new alloys, you still have to handle it properly. It is not for the unsupervised apprentice or the do it yourselfer.
Physis, aluminum is a great conductor. The electric utilities have gone almost totally with aluminum conductors. The problem is with the old aluminum alloys and the way they were handled. The new alloys are much better and will allow the knowledgeable electrician to save the customer a lot of money without sacrificing quality of installation.
Even with the new alloys, you still have to handle it properly. It is not for the unsupervised apprentice or the do it yourselfer.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Stupid Question
physis,
This kitchen was probably already wired in 10/2 or 12/2 Aluminum NM, now they are trying to modify/add to it, this is the type of thing that will continue to give Aluminum conductors a bad name, as it takes some real care to terminate the old stuff, better to replace.
We do not use Aluminum except for temps, but that is because of the job specs we get most times ask for copper.
Aluminum has some good points though, it is nice to work with in large sizes, it bends easer and of course is lighter.
physis,
This kitchen was probably already wired in 10/2 or 12/2 Aluminum NM, now they are trying to modify/add to it, this is the type of thing that will continue to give Aluminum conductors a bad name, as it takes some real care to terminate the old stuff, better to replace.
We do not use Aluminum except for temps, but that is because of the job specs we get most times ask for copper.
Aluminum has some good points though, it is nice to work with in large sizes, it bends easer and of course is lighter.
physis
Senior Member
Re: Stupid Question
Bob,
I'm just thinking I'ld replace it with copper where ever I'm rewiring
And I also understand that copper conductors across service poles gets very expensive and very heavy.
I don't mind aluminum where it's a good idea, really.
[ May 13, 2003, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: physis ]
Bob,
I'm just thinking I'ld replace it with copper where ever I'm rewiring
And I also understand that copper conductors across service poles gets very expensive and very heavy.
I don't mind aluminum where it's a good idea, really.
[ May 13, 2003, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: physis ]
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Stupid Question
In my opinion, Al. is great in its place. Wiring small circuits inside buildings is not its place. Also, for pole mounted transformer legs and stingers, cutout and lightning arrester wiring, pole down grounds, etc. should all be Cu.
When I was doing electrical work, I always used Al. for large feeders and service entrance. I felt reasonably sure that Joe Home Owner would not - - - - with the connections. Everything else, I used Cu. so he would have a chance of being forgiven for messing where he didn't belong.
In my opinion, Al. is great in its place. Wiring small circuits inside buildings is not its place. Also, for pole mounted transformer legs and stingers, cutout and lightning arrester wiring, pole down grounds, etc. should all be Cu.
When I was doing electrical work, I always used Al. for large feeders and service entrance. I felt reasonably sure that Joe Home Owner would not - - - - with the connections. Everything else, I used Cu. so he would have a chance of being forgiven for messing where he didn't belong.
Re: Stupid Question
thanks for all the information everyone. I may have been a little vague in my initial description. The house was built in the 40's and there is alumininum wire already there in certain parts of the house. There was an addition done at one time and they used copper. The uqestion was is it safe to attach an aluminum ground and a copper ground to the same junction box. So the ground is still complete. Otherwise I would have an open ground. I think? I did purchase a couple books on wiring but it is still alsways good to ask. I did hire and electician to increase and replace the service from 100amps to 200amps as well as establish a new earth ground. I believe he is going to sink an 8' or 10' rod someplace for this. But anyway thanks again.
thanks for all the information everyone. I may have been a little vague in my initial description. The house was built in the 40's and there is alumininum wire already there in certain parts of the house. There was an addition done at one time and they used copper. The uqestion was is it safe to attach an aluminum ground and a copper ground to the same junction box. So the ground is still complete. Otherwise I would have an open ground. I think? I did purchase a couple books on wiring but it is still alsways good to ask. I did hire and electician to increase and replace the service from 100amps to 200amps as well as establish a new earth ground. I believe he is going to sink an 8' or 10' rod someplace for this. But anyway thanks again.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Stupid Question
kalmangt
Are you sure this is AL and not tinned copper?
Al was not used in houses untill the late 50's or sixty's. but tinned copper was used widly in the 40's does the wire have a cloth or rubber covering?
kalmangt
Are you sure this is AL and not tinned copper?
Al was not used in houses untill the late 50's or sixty's. but tinned copper was used widly in the 40's does the wire have a cloth or rubber covering?
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Stupid Question
Thanks Wayne when he said built in the 40s I was confused, as I thought it was 60s to early 70s for Aluminum, but what you said makes perfect sense.
I lived in a 1970 house with aluminum NM backstabbed into all the devices protected by an FPE Stab-loc panel, a true safety triple play
[ May 13, 2003, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
Thanks Wayne when he said built in the 40s I was confused, as I thought it was 60s to early 70s for Aluminum, but what you said makes perfect sense.
I lived in a 1970 house with aluminum NM backstabbed into all the devices protected by an FPE Stab-loc panel, a true safety triple play
[ May 13, 2003, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
Re: Stupid Question
its a mix the older stuff which I am sure is not aluminum it has a cloth covering that looks really old. But there was some work done on the house in the seventies that I am sure it is aluminum. And here is one more for ya, can there be copper wire with an aluminum ground wire?
its a mix the older stuff which I am sure is not aluminum it has a cloth covering that looks really old. But there was some work done on the house in the seventies that I am sure it is aluminum. And here is one more for ya, can there be copper wire with an aluminum ground wire?
Ed MacLaren
Senior Member
Re: Stupid Question
Some of the wire used in the forties and fifties was copper with a "tin" coating. It looked somewhat like aluminum, and is often misidentifed as such.
PS - Sorry, Wayne, I reread the posts and saw that you had already mentioned this.
Ed
[ May 14, 2003, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: Ed MacLaren ]
Some of the wire used in the forties and fifties was copper with a "tin" coating. It looked somewhat like aluminum, and is often misidentifed as such.
PS - Sorry, Wayne, I reread the posts and saw that you had already mentioned this.
Ed
[ May 14, 2003, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: Ed MacLaren ]
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