Sub Panel in Attic

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Carultch said:
I think if you have to go get something in order to access it, then that "something" counts as a tool. The only exception is keys.

Needing to go get a portable ladder, that counts as a tool.
Needing to go get a chair, that counts as a tool.
Needing to go get a hook stick to pull open a high attic latch, that counts as a tool.

Using a rope that is permanently installed on the attic hatch, that isn't a tool.
Using a permanently installed ladder, that isn't a tool.

While technically these would be tools the way an anthropologist looks at it, they are an integral part of the constructed access path. You can get through them while having only the clothes on your back.
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I still don't understand why keys are or could be an exception. Say I have something requiring "readily accessibility" Sure seems to me it is much easier to gain access to a latching method that maybe just needs a screwdriver to operate it then something that needs a specific key to operate it, yet at same time if one claims the need for a "tool" to gain access disqualifies "readily accessible" then both methods of gaining entry should be disqualified IMO, yet panelboards, disconnects, electrical rooms are behind lock and key all the time though most of the time they are equipment that is required to be readily accessible.

We then have added GFCI's to the list of things that need to be readily accessible and some AHJ's out there say a GFCI under sink or a hydromassage tub that has simple pull to open door to gain access doesn't meet "readily accessible" definition, yet a GFCI breaker serving same load with a lock on the panelboard cover does meet the definition:roll:
 
kwired said:
I still don't understand why keys are or could be an exception. Say I have something requiring "readily accessibility" Sure seems to me it is much easier to gain access to a latching method that maybe just needs a screwdriver to operate it then something that needs a specific key to operate it, yet at same time if one claims the need for a "tool" to gain access disqualifies "readily accessible" then both methods of gaining entry should be disqualified IMO, yet panelboards, disconnects, electrical rooms are behind lock and key all the time though most of the time they are equipment that is required to be readily accessible.

We then have added GFCI's to the list of things that need to be readily accessible and some AHJ's out there say a GFCI under sink or a hydromassage tub that has simple pull to open door to gain access doesn't meet "readily accessible" definition, yet a GFCI breaker serving same load with a lock on the panelboard cover does meet the definition:roll:
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110.26(F), in NEC2014
Locked Electrical Equipment Rooms or Enclosures

Electrical equipment rooms or enclosures [...] that are controlled by lock(s) shall be considered readily accessible to qualified personnel.

Essentially, when they added the use of "tools" to the definition of "readily accessible", they realized that this issue would come up, and that locking equipment and equipment rooms is an inevitable part of what we do in the industry. Obviously you don't want your equipment accessible to the general public, in commercial/industrial applications. And therefore, they provide a special exception for keys, even though anyone ordinarily would consider a key to be a tool.
 
kwired said:
We then have added GFCI's to the list of things that need to be readily accessible and some AHJ's out there say a GFCI under sink or a hydromassage tub that has simple pull to open door to gain access doesn't meet "readily accessible" definition, yet a GFCI breaker serving same load with a lock on the panelboard cover does meet the definition:roll:
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Do you need to climb over or remove obstacles? No.
Do you need to utilize a portable ladder? No
Do you need to get a tool? No.

I don't see any reason why something in a cabinet, whose door can be opened with a simple pull, would not be readily accessible. You don't "remove" the door, because it is still attached to its hinges.

I suppose it would require that the cabinet is clear at all times. Having to remove the contents of the cabinet, would be "having to remove obstacles".
 
Carultch said:
Do you need to climb over or remove obstacles? No.
Do you need to utilize a portable ladder? No
Do you need to get a tool? No.

I don't see any reason why something in a cabinet, whose door can be opened with a simple pull, would not be readily accessible. You don't "remove" the door, because it is still attached to its hinges.

I suppose it would require that the cabinet is clear at all times. Having to remove the contents of the cabinet, would be "having to remove obstacles".
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You do need a tool. You need a key to unlock the panel. The key may not be in the door
 
I did google tool and tried to find any reference to key and couldnt find any.
Before this thread is over we ll the latin origin of key and tool and the biblical uses:blink:
 
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