Sub panel in the garage?

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Dennis Alwon said:
Well, I guess I have been lucky because I know I have installed panels on the walls in the garage common to the living areas.
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That is a problem if the wall needs a 2 hour rating.
 
I would like to take this opportunity to say, I just think you may want to look into fire rated wall issues.

I am not expert in classifying wall ratings. There are many different "hour ratings", and maybe this wall is not required to be constructed as what I know to be a "1-hour wall". I do not work in the residential industry.

I just feel there is a high likelihood there is a rating. I would appreciate if someone could determine if this is, in fact, a rated wall. If it is, what is the standard "hour" rating.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Correct but for a residence I always thought it was a one hour rating. I may be wrong--- I hate saying that.
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I've never seen more than 5/8 rock installed on the garage side with living space on the other side of the wall...
 
stickboy1375 said:
I've never seen more than 5/8 rock installed on the garage side with living space on the other side of the wall...
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309.2 Separation required. IRC 2003
The garage shall be separated from the residence and its attic area by not less than 1/2-inch (12.7 mm) gypsum board applied to the garage side. Garages beneath habitable rooms shall be separated from all habitable rooms above by not less than 5/8-inch (15.9 mm) Type X gypsum board or equivalent. Where the separation is a floor-ceiling assembly, the structure supporting the separation shall also be protected by not less than 1/2-inch (12.7 mm) gypsum board or equivalent.


I think with sheetrock on both sides it has a 2 hour rating however, the issue was the panelboard leaving an opening too large. I am not sure why a metal can would kill the firewall rating but it may.
 
Don't you mean if it were IN the wall and not on the wall ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon
Well, I guess I have been lucky because I know I have installed panels on the walls in the garage common to the living areas.
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Iwire said:
That is a problem if the wall needs a 2 hour rating
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OK, it?s coming back to me why we "normally" do not put panels in the attached garage. The fire wall issues. I'll see what I can find out about their code in Touqerville, Utah.
 
:-? You guys are over thinking again. Do you not put plastic outlet boxes in these garage walls?????? Panels in garage walls that are next to living areas are acceptible.
 
I would think there is a difference between a 4"x4" penetration and a 14 1/2" x 30" penetration.

FWIW, this has never come up for me. I've always put garage panels on an exterior wall.
 
bobrenwick said:
OK, it?s coming back to me why we "normally" do not put panels in the attached garage. The fire wall issues. I'll see what I can find out about their code in Touqerville, Utah.
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Utah has adopted the 2006 IRC State wide. This requires the garage to be separated from the dwelling by a layer or 1/2" sheetrock or equivalent.

Here is what that section says:
R309.2 Separation required. The garage shall be separated
from the residence and its attic area by not less than 1/2-inch (12.7
mm) gypsum board applied to the garage side. Garages beneath
habitable rooms shall be separated from all habitable rooms
above by not less than 5/8-inch (15.9 mm) Type X gypsum board
or equivalent. Where the separation is a floor-ceiling assembly,
the structure supporting the separation shall also be protected by
not less than 1/2-inch (12.7 mm) gypsum board or equivalent.
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There is no real "fire rating" of this wall, just the requirement for a layer of 1/2" sheetrock or equivalent. You will need to check with the local building department to see what they have determined is the equivalent of 1/2" sheetrock. There are places that will accept the metal panel box and the cover as equivalent of 1/2" sheetrock.

Chris
 
Cavie said:
:-? You guys are over thinking again. Do you not put plastic outlet boxes in these garage walls?????? Panels in garage walls that are next to living areas are acceptible.
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The differance is plastic boxes carry a fire rating of 2 hours , and a standard load center does not. What I do when this situation occurs is to surface mount the box on a piece of 5/8'' rock then run a chase with the branch circuits out of the box.
 
raider1 said:
Here is what that section says:
There is no real "fire rating" of this wall, just the requirement for a layer of 1/2" sheetrock or equivalent. You will need to check with the local building department to see what they have determined is the equivalent of 1/2" sheetrock. There are places that will accept the metal panel box and the cover as equivalent of 1/2" sheetrock.
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Chris
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So what does equivalent mean--- does it mean equivalent in fire rating???? How do you equate sheetrock to anything else--- Luan?, plywood? I assume it means in fire rating but that is not there in words.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
So what does equivalent mean--- does it mean equivalent in fire rating???? How do you equate sheetrock to anything else--- Luan?, plywood? I assume it means in fire rating but that is not there in words.
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Agreed, that is why I stated to check with the building department to see if they have determined what might be "equivalent" to 1/2" sheetrock.

Chris
 
lpelectric said:
Type "X" means fire-rated.
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Not quite. Assemblies are fire rated, individual components are not. For a particular wall assembly to be fire rated, for example, it would need to be tested as built. Most fire rated assemblies use type "X" sheetrock, but a piece of type "X" sheetrock by itself doesn't cary a fire rating. Type "X" just means that it is designed to perform better under fire conditions. The main difference that I am aware of is that there are fibers in the gypsum to give it more strength after a fire burns the paper face off.

The quote above from the IRC doesn't call for any particular fire rating. It does require type "X" sheetrock on the ceiling in certain circumstances, but it does not require type "X" sheetrock on walls.
 
eprice said:
Not quite. Assemblies are fire rated, individual components are not. For a particular wall assembly to be fire rated, for example, it would need to be tested as built. Most fire rated assemblies use type "X" sheetrock, but a piece of type "X" sheetrock by itself doesn't cary a fire rating. Type "X" just means that it is designed to perform better under fire conditions. The main difference that I am aware of is that there are fibers in the gypsum to give it more strength after a fire burns the paper face off.

The quote above from the IRC doesn't call for any particular fire rating. It does require type "X" sheetrock on the ceiling in certain circumstances, but it does not require type "X" sheetrock on walls.
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My post simply stated that ...."Type "X" is fire-rated"..... I fully understand and agree with your post except that I would argue that I am not talking about an "assembly" in my post, just the fact that type "X" in and of itself has a fire rating.
According to ASTM C 36, (the standard for gypsum wallboard), type "X" must provide at least 1 hour fire resistance rating for 5/8" board and 3/4 hour fire resistance rating for 1/2".
When I used the wording "fire-rated" in was in this sense only. :smile: I fully well acknowledge that rating works with assembly and see the point that 5/8 all by itself on fire without an assembly would be difficult to test for burn time. Thanks.
 
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