Sub panel location

[rookie4now]

I have a client that is asking if we can put the new sub panel in the kitchen under the window. I'm not aware of any minimum height requirement even though this seems like a strange location to me.

The other thing that he plans to do later, is install a removable counter just under the window. It is only attached by pins that remove easily and without any tools, but technically this would not satisfy the clearance requirements WHEN INSTALLED.

Any thoughts on this? Thanks.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I agree the installation is strange but as you said there are no minimum height requirements.

As for what the client does later is not your direct concern. I would try and talk him out of the situation at least. Install the panel outside the kitchen window --- is that a possibility?? We have outdoor panels around here all the time.

 

[rookie4now]

I agree the installation is strange but as you said there are no minimum height requirements.

Install the panel outside the kitchen window --- is that a possibility?? We have outdoor panels around here all the time.

Unfortunately that would place it about 30' above the ground. Should stop the kids from playing with it though ;-)

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Unfortunately that would place it about 30' above the ground. Should stop the kids from playing with it though ;-)

Lets see --- 30'-- yeah I believe that would fail in most jurisdictions--- you noticed I said most.

 

[earshavewalls]

I had an inspection on a coffee kiosk in a grocery store. When I went to check that the panel schedule was properly labeled I observed that they had placed file cabinets, on casters, in front of all of the panels in the room. This is a violation. Article 240.24(A) states that "overcurrent devices shall be READILY ACCESSIBLE".
The definition of READILY ACCESSIBLE is: Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.

I'd say "NO".

 

[Terrynistler]

At the sq' price most retail is going for I have no trouble at all believing that they would stack stuff in front of the panel. I have seen it many times, even when I made a sign and stuck it on front of the panel.

 

[sfav8r]

This is a violation. Article 240.24(A) states that "overcurrent devices shall be READILY ACCESSIBLE".
The definition of READILY ACCESSIBLE is: Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.

I'd say "NO".

Just to play devils advocate, the counter, even when not lifted out of the way, does not prevent the panel from being reached quickly or require someone to climb over anything, or get a ladder.

I personally do not like the location and would not want it that way in my house. However, I do respect the wishes of the client AS LONG AS I can do so without a code violation. As weird as this seems, I'm not sure it's a violation.

 

[charlie b]

. . . the counter . . . does not prevent the panel from being reached quickly or require someone to climb over anything, or get a ladder.

The ability to reach a panel ?quickly? is not required anywhere in the code. It is not in the least relevant to the requirement for working clearances. The functions of a panelboard do not include allowing something to be quickly turned off in an emergency.

As weird as this seems, I'm not sure it's a violation.

I agree that it?s not a violation, but I think its weirdness goes deeper than some might imagine. The code is all about installation, and to a very limited extent it addresses maintenance. Its scope, as defined in 90.2, is clearly limited to things done by electricians, engineers, inspectors, and other members of the electrical profession. But it is not addressed to homeowners, nor to occupants of other types of buildings.

Yet in this case, it would be the homeowner who creates a violation of the electrical code, by performing an installation of something that is not electrical. That?s the weirdness, the irony of this situation. I think the EC should inform the homeowner that installing a shelf above the panel would create an NEC violation. Then the EC should perform the panel installation as requested by the HO.