Submerged pump... single phase or two phase?

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srcotton777

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I bought a home with a 600' deep well. I have no info on the submerged pump other than the wiring and ohm load between the three wires. Between wire one and two is 2.8 between two and three is 6.4 and between three and one is 8.4
wire is Rome Submersible Pump Cable Type TW 10/3 600 Volts... one has the lettering, one is plain yellow and one has black squares dotted down the length.
Can anyone tell me anything about this pump without me paying to have it pulled? Is it single phase or three phase? I dont see any indication of it having a control box attached... It appears to have been wired to a double 30 breaker, but I am not sure about this...
 
This one did at SOME point... not now though... the pole/meter by the well was wired three phase with its own meter at some point... I converted it to single phase for monetary reasons ... to keep from having to pay for the outrageous demand electricity.
 
It also has two 6,000 gallon tanks and a 5hp three phase pump from there to the sprinkler system... sprinkler system is all 1.125 heavy wall copper... copper was cheap 25 years ago... especially if you owned a large copper tube/aluminum fin coil manufacturing company like the previous owners did! I assume the copper and 5hp motor came from the business?
 
Maybe I should also mention that I have built a 15hp rotary phase converter, so I DO have three phase capability ... I have one question about it too... I currently have it on a double 30 breaker (the idler/conversion motor) but it throws before the motor starts completly... I currently have 10awg wire... can I go to a double 40 or double 50 amp on 10 awg? I figure it is just start up amperage and it should come WAY down as the idler motor has no load... it will be running the 7.5hp pump from the tanks to the sprinklers and the submerged pump at seperate times...
 
srcotton777 said:
I bought a home with a 600' deep well. I have no info on the submerged pump other than the wiring and ohm load between the three wires. Between wire one and two is 2.8 between two and three is 6.4 and between three and one is 8.4
wire is Rome Submersible Pump Cable Type TW 10/3 600 Volts... one has the lettering, one is plain yellow and one has black squares dotted down the length.
Can anyone tell me anything about this pump without me paying to have it pulled? Is it single phase or three phase? I dont see any indication of it having a control box attached... It appears to have been wired to a double 30 breaker, but I am not sure about this...
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You most likely have a single phase motor. Capaitor start winding. Most use controllers. The yellow lead you have is the start winding.

Here's how they work.

http://www.pumped101.com/singlephasemotors.pdf

Here's the type I'm most familiar with.

http://www.franklin-electric.com/subm_text/sub.htm
 
srcotton777 said:
This one did at SOME point... not now though... the pole/meter by the well was wired three phase with its own meter at some point... I converted it to single phase for monetary reasons ... to keep from having to pay for the outrageous demand electricity.
Click to expand...

How exactly was the pump wired? did it work after you changed the service?
 
srcotton777 said:
Between wire one and two is 2.8 between two and three is 6.4 and between three and one is 8.4
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Are you finding these readings at the well head, with the wires separated from the control box, or at the pressure switch in the house?

If you converted to single phase (and I don't understand why), you should know which loads were single-phase and which were 3-phase.
 
srcotton777 said:
I bought a home with a 600' deep well. I have no info on the submerged pump other than the wiring and ohm load between the three wires. Between wire one and two is 2.8 between two and three is 6.4 and between three and one is 8.4
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's a single phase, CSIR motor. Wire one is "run", wire two is "common" and wire 3 is "start", in your case.
 
all three wires are attached together in a flat arrangement and all are yellow... one has the lettering, one is plain yellow and one has the black squares... there was no service to the well when I bought the house... I had it connected... the breaker box was there and the submerged pump appears to have been wired to a double 30... there was only one three phase (triple) breaker in the box and I am pretty sure it went to the 5hp booster pump (pressurizing water from the tanks to the sprinkler heads) I say this because the motor was wired for 3 phase. (but keep in mind that it is possible that another triple breaker could have been removed... i do not know)

I took the ohm readings directly from the well head where the wires go down the 4" pipe to the submerged pump. With all three wires having continuity, it couldnt be single phase could it? (oh... and i realize i made a little typo in my subject line!!! I meant to say three phase, not two phase!!!)
 
srcotton777 said:
With all three wires having continuity, it couldnt be single phase could it?
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Certainly, if it is a CSIR motor. Quite common for the larger single phase well pumps. It will be powered through a "starter box", which includes at least a potential relay and a capacitor.
 
IMO, you need to pull the pump, because no matter what you need the nameplate data on the pump to size the control box.


Some pictures would make this much easier.
 
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From the resistance readings that you got, it does sound like a single phase pump and some one has removed the control box, as others have said, you will probally need to pull it to find out the HP, the most common sizes are 3/4 to 1 hp for a residence. A 1 HP controller will work on a 3/4 HP pump, but the overload Klixon will be set too high. It's probally a larger pump though if their using a 5 HP booster pump, I think the largest standard size of a single phase submersible is around 5 HP, maybe 10. Good luck!
 
By the way, the third wire is the start winding, they do not have the centrifugal switch like a normal single phase motor to disconnect the start winding, instead they use a current relay that opens when the current drops below a certain point taking the start winding out of the circuit. Wells are subject to lightning damage, so the most vulnerable components are kept above ground for easy replacement. (start capacitor, run capacitor, start relay, ect.)
 
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hillbilly1 said:
By the way, the third wire is the start winding, they do not have the centrifugal switch like a normal single phase motor to disconnect the start winding, instead they use a current relay that opens when the current drops below a certain point taking the start winding out of the circuit. Wells are subject to lightning damage, so the most vulnerable components are kept above ground for easy replacement. (start capacitor, run capacitor, start relay, ect.)
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I honestly think the submerged pump was turned on and off with the double 30 breaker without using a control box of any sort... Is there any way possible that a motor could handle this for any length of time? (i wish I had taken pictures before I updated the breaker box... but i do recall there simply was NO slack in the wires to go anywhere but to the double 30!)
 
srcotton777 said:
I honestly think the submerged pump was turned on and off with the double 30 breaker without using a control box of any sort... Is there any way possible that a motor could handle this for any length of time? (i wish I had taken pictures before I updated the breaker box... but i do recall there simply was NO slack in the wires to go anywhere but to the double 30!)
Click to expand...

Then its a two wire pump and one of the wires is a ground wire, looks like you still need to pull the pump... ;) :grin:
 
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