Submersible pumps used in a lake

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norbi

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Hi,

We are a French fountain company and we have a client in Florida.
Can someone help us to find answers to the following questions ?

Can we install 460V three phase pumps in a lake ?
The people can not reach the structure because it is floating at about 150 feet from the edge, it is forbidden to swim in the lake.

What kind of protection must we install in the cupboard ?

If we use special submersible cable, can we put it without any other protection in the lake like in Europe ? (about 300 feet deep)

Must we install a special rock guard or lens guard on the submersible projectors ?

I know that we have a lot of questions but the US NEC is different than the European one.

We need some answers and code articles, if we have to pay for a complete answer from a specialist we will do it.

Looking forward to hearing from you soon,

With best regards,

Norbert
 
Re: Submersible pumps used in a lake

Can we install 460V three phase pumps in a lake ?
For the first question the answer is no
NEC 680.51 (B) Operating Voltages Submersible pumps and other submersible equipment shall operate 300 volts or less between conductors.
 
Re: Submersible pumps used in a lake

in this case of installation are we really in the fountain category ?

What is the precise definition of a fountain in US ?
 
Re: Submersible pumps used in a lake

Originally posted by norbi:
H

Can we install 460V three phase pumps in a lake ?
The people can not reach the structure because it is floating at about 150 feet from the edge, it is forbidden to swim in the lake.


Norbert
Click to expand...
 
Re: Submersible pumps used in a lake

Here ya go:
2002NEC
680.2 Definitions.
Fountain. Fountains, ornamental pools, display pools, and reflection pools. The definition does not include drinking fountains.

V. Fountains
680.50 General.
The provisions of Part I and Part V of this article shall apply to all permanently installed fountains as defined in 680.2. Fountains that have water common to a pool shall additionally comply with the requirements in Part II of this article. Part V does not cover self-contained, portable fountains not larger than 1.5 m (5 ft) in any dimension. Portable fountains shall comply with Parts II and III of Article 422.
(B) Operating Voltage. No luminaires (lighting fixtures) shall be installed for operation on supply circuits over 150 volts between conductors. Submersible pumps and other submersible equipment shall operate at 300 volts or less between conductors.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Submersible pumps used in a lake

Sorry button error.You know could this, and might be article 682.---682.2 Definitions:Body of water that has been constructed or modified to fit some decorative or commercial purpose,such as but not limited to...Would a lake be a constructed fountian
 
Re: Submersible pumps used in a lake

Article 680 of the NEC covers swimming pools, fountains, and similar installations.
680.1 scope. The term body of water used throughout part 1 applies to all bodies of water covered in this scope unless otherwise amended.
I think the word all bodies of water covers your installation
 
Re: Submersible pumps used in a lake

682.1 scope:Natural or artificially made bodies of water,such as but not limited to.....
 
Re: Submersible pumps used in a lake

680.1 Scope. The provisions of this article apply to the construction and installation of electrical wiring for and equipment in or adjacent to all swimming, wading, therapeutic,
and decorative pools, fountains, hot tubs, spas, and hydromassage bathtubs, whether permanently installed or storable, and to metallic auxiliary equipment, such as pumps, filters, and similar equipment. The term body of water used throughout Part I applies to all bodies of water
covered in this scope unless otherwise amended.

The paragraph clearly states that the term "body of water" only applies to to those bodies of water covered in the scope. I don't see the word lake in the scope anywhere.

If the lake is part of a navigable waterway, there may well be coast guard requirements to meet.

Personally, I can't find anything in the code that covers this case. i think whomever the AHJ is would have to grant some kind of dispensation at plan review time.
 
Re: Submersible pumps used in a lake

what does it mean ?

The lake is not navigable, it is a rain lake of 300 feet by 400 feet.

What kind of restrictions do we have in this case ?
 
Re: Submersible pumps used in a lake

I think it is a natural lake because it is 30 feet deep and not in concrete

[ January 11, 2005, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: norbi ]
 
Re: Submersible pumps used in a lake

Norbi,First and foremost, welcome to the form.I see this falling under "article 682",which of course can and will be debated.I've got the 2005 nec,open and see a line to the left,from start to finish.New section..Think it might be a good idea to consult the AHJ,in said jurisdiction in State of Florida.Think it would be pointless,without..I'd like to see you return with this said installation to the form.I'm kinda excited to see it..(grin'in)
 
Re: Submersible pumps used in a lake

Thanks

How can we reach the AHJ ?

What does AHJ means ?

Sorry but I don't know this ....
 
Re: Submersible pumps used in a lake

Now you want to make this body of water into a fountain? I think your best bet would be to contact the AHJ and find out what they would classify this body of water.
 
Re: Submersible pumps used in a lake

Can someone give me a Mail or an Address of this building department of Florida ? Where could I find it?
 
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