- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Same here but you won't be pouring any footings without the footing form inspection and you won't pass that without a connection to the CEE.
Subpanel in detached garage
- Thread starter Eagle126
- Start date
- Status
Same here but you won't be pouring any footings without the footing form inspection and you won't pass that without a connection to the CEE.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
But here that connection will often not be made by an EC. It will be made by the concrete contractor and inspected by the building inspector, not the electrical inspector.
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
I thought that the IRC did not require rebar in footings in structures of three stories or less.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Yes, the building inspector would do the same here which can lead to other problems. Recently did a job with a new service and an addition. The BI inspecting the footing wouldn't let them pour because they didn't have a CEE. He made the GC go to Home Depot and buy some wire and a clamp before he would pass the footing forms. The GC bought some #8 solid copper and a clamp installed it and the BI went on his way after leaving a green sticker. Problems being that the rebar was only 3/8" and the service was going to be 200 amps. :roll: Electrician comes by later in the job and cuts off the #8 copper and throws it away.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I would have at least tied it to the grounding electrode conductor.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
I'm curious as to why? The electrode is not really an electrode and the #8 is not properly sized for a 200 amp service.
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
What can it hurt. If the rods are installed, it would just be extra. No?
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Well for one reason it may not pass the final electrical exam if the inspector looks closely at the size of the GEC. Secondly a home inspector down the road could cite it as a problem since he can see a #8 GEC for a 200 amp service.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I would almost bet money that the #8 in a CEE has a better ohms reading then two ground rod in most cases.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Me too. :thumbsup:
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
That same inspector, if s/he's worth his/her salt, will conclude that the #8 Cu / 3/8" rebar is NOT a CEE and look to see that the GES is complete with the rest of what's at the building.
A Home Inspector, down any road, is always a source of spurious calls that many times require the additional expense of a trade professional to come and be paid to pass judgement. Admittedly, a less than scrupulous trade professional can take advantage of the situation to hoodwink the owner into unnecessary work, but that is another issue.
I think that the #8 Cu to 3/8 rebar, while not a CEE, is not required to be removed or disconnected. To do so would make other incidental earthing connections (say 1/2 RMC run to an outbuilding) something that would have to be removed.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Of course the inspector sees a #8 and says hey that should be #4. Now you argue that the rebar is 3/8" and you don't need a CEE-- now you must prove it. I would still leave it connected as the builder may be able to show it was 3/8" rebar.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Most HIs probably do not even know what a CEE is.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
IMO that's more trouble then it's worth, that's why I cut it off.
Here in NC that amended the CEE so it is not required so I don't imagined we would get rejected if we had the ground rods also. I wish they would change that. I finally have most of my builders trained about calling me for the cee. I always give them the wire and clamp and they install it unless it is close by, then I'll do it. I have a printed paper I give them with explicit instructions.
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
Would you share that printed paper with me?
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Dennis do you do this as a standard practice, installing 20' of bare copper and attaching to the rebar?
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I guess I should have made a statement about that earlier. Yes, I do. I figure if the clamp every gives out I still have a gec. Crazy probably but it isn't that much more money.
Volta
Senior Member
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
Probably especially important when relying on others that don't do this work or likely understand why this is even being done.
- Status