Subpanel thoughts

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AZsparky

AZsparky

Senior Member
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
Below is from a client looking for sizing a new garage subpanel. Residential application and of course he wants the least expensive subpanel to meet his needs. I think a 12 space 100 amp subpanel fed via 100/2 with 1/0 AL SER cable. Or does anyone think a 70/2 breaker with #2 AL SER would suffice since probably only the A/C and the misting pump would be fairly constant loads? Any input?


From the client:

Here is the load requirements and the outlets the best that I can estimate.

1. Air compressor 15 amp draw at 110 or 7.5 amp 240 volts (inside garage
wall)
2. Welder running 20 amp draw at 110 (< 6 feet from panel Inside wall) 3. Air conditioner 15 amp draw at 230 (<3 feet from panel inside wall) 4. Misting pump 15 amp draw at 110 (outside wall <5 feet from panel) 5. one spare outlets inside garage 20 amp for (<6 feet from panel for band saw, grinder, drill press etc.) 6. One spare outlet outside wall 20 amp

All single phase.
 
I would think that a #2 AL SER with a 90 amp OCPD would be fine if you're looking to save money.
 
Remember that when you are dealing with 120-volt loads you can load each leg to the capacity of the breaker as long as they are not continuous loads.
LEG A LEG B
7.5 amp 7.5 amp Air Compressor
20 amp Welder
15 amp 15 amp Air Conditioner

42.5 Amp 22.5 amp TOTAL

Put the circuit for your general use receptacle on B LEG and it looks like the 70-amp panel will give you plenty of capacity.
 
Big orange sells a small copper bus 100A 6/12 GE panel for about $14 that will handle this. The only problem with'em is the plastic neutral bar mounts tend to break when you torque larger wire to spec. I complained to GE about this (they admitted it could be an issue and FedEx'd me a bag full of new mounts and claimed the mount had been redesigned)
 
Thank You for all the great input.

Thank You for all the great input.

Wow, what great feedback from all. This seems to be such a great resource for EC's. Just amazed at the speed of response and the professionalism demonstrated. Is it always like this?

Thanks again,
Bob
 
Re: Thank You for all the great input.

Re: Thank You for all the great input.

AZsparky said:
Wow, what great feedback from all. This seems to be such a great resource for EC's. Just amazed at the speed of response and the professionalism demonstrated. Is it always like this?
Click to expand...
No, sometimes we answer questions correctly! :shock:
 
tonyi said:
Big orange sells a small copper bus 100A 6/12 GE panel for about $14 that will handle this. The only problem with'em is the plastic neutral bar mounts tend to break when you torque larger wire to spec. I complained to GE about this (they admitted it could be an issue and FedEx'd me a bag full of new mounts and claimed the mount had been redesigned)
Click to expand...

Your fault for using GE anything.
 
Re: Thank You for all the great input.

Re: Thank You for all the great input.

LarryFine said:
AZsparky said:
Wow, what great feedback from all. This seems to be such a great resource for EC's. Just amazed at the speed of response and the professionalism demonstrated. Is it always like this?
Click to expand...
No, sometimes we answer questions correctly! :shock:
Click to expand...
We usually are bit faster, sorry for the delay.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Your fault for using GE anything.
Click to expand...

The man wanted cheap, that panel is about as cheap as they come (and still have a copper bus).

If I'm buying it, it would probably be a Cutler Hammer CH or QO.
 
Maybe walk away.

Maybe walk away.

I'm getting old and intolerant but I would tell any client that price pushy that I had figured out exactly what he needed and that is another electrician. I would not put my name on anything that fragile because when it breaks they will blame you rather than blaming themselves for insisting on the low price point.
 
tonyi said:
Jim W in Tampa said:
Your fault for using GE anything.
Click to expand...

The man wanted cheap, that panel is about as cheap as they come (and still have a copper bus).

If I'm buying it, it would probably be a Cutler Hammer CH or QO.
Click to expand...

If it breaks its yours for a year.If an extra $50 makes the call then pass the job up.
 
Re: Thank You for all the great input.

Re: Thank You for all the great input.

AZsparky said:
Wow, what great feedback from all. This seems to be such a great resource for EC's. Just amazed at the speed of response and the professionalism demonstrated. Is it always like this?
Click to expand...

Except for "Fart Joke Sunday". It's always the second Sunday of the month, tune in for games, prizes and a raffle for a whoopie cushion.

Check out this guy getting in shape for the big day, trying to force one out: :oops:

Bob, welcome to the forum. :lol:
 
chicar said:
Why AL-service cable for a subpanel.

P.S. I like G.E. They bring good things to life.
Click to expand...


For one thing it's much cheaper than copper cable. The price of copper is through the roof.
 
If it breaks its yours for a year.If an extra $50 makes the call then pass the job up.
Click to expand...

Now that I griped to GE about them, I've got a lifetime supply of those neutral bar standoffs. They sent me about 50 of them when I only needed 2.

I do like the lugs on GE's breakers. Much nicer than a Cutler BR. I just wish their panel guts were a bit more sturdy. I haven't had any breakage issues with SQ-D/CH guts. The SQ-D's aren't what they were 20-30 years ago though when the stabs were replacable.
 
tonyi said:
If it breaks its yours for a year.If an extra $50 makes the call then pass the job up.
Click to expand...

Now that I griped to GE about them, I've got a lifetime supply of those neutral bar standoffs. They sent me about 50 of them when I only needed 2.

I do like the lugs on GE's breakers. Much nicer than a Cutler BR. I just wish their panel guts were a bit more sturdy. I haven't had any breakage issues with SQ-D/CH guts. The SQ-D's aren't what they were 20-30 years ago though when the stabs were replacable.
Click to expand...

Think about it they sent 50.They must know you will need more in future.How much do they pay for your time ? Chances are great that the postage cost more than they did.Sorry if i am bashing GE but i have yet seen quality from them.My dislike started over 35 years ago with there TV'S
 
AZ sparky

AZ sparky

If we all no nothing.... it is that anyone in Arizona can put their hat in the ring of electricians with little or no experience in your grand sand lot of a State and for this a shall refuse to assist you and others the like with the remote inference of AZ.

Where's the Integrity (Moderator)?
 
Re: AZ sparky

Re: AZ sparky

keenalu1 said:
If we all no nothing.... it is that anyone in Arizona can put their hat in the ring of electricians with little or no experience in your grand sand lot of a State and for this a shall refuse to assist you and others the like with the remote inference of AZ.

Where's the Integrity (Moderator)?
Click to expand...
Keenaalu1, I am confused by your post. A license is not required to post here. A tie to the electrical industry is. So if a first year apprentice signs up here, and is forthcoming with that information, then we will answer questions to his level, and always caution them to work under supervision. I frequently urge apprentices I discover at work and online to visit this forum, and join in.

Why should we leave states with no statewide licensing of electricians in the cold? Does the paper in your wallet define your commitment to the industry, and your thirst for knowledge in the trade? I think not.
 
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