Substituting a 3 Phase breaker. Necessary to occupy all 3 poles?

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AB claims they are ul489
These are not molded case breakers listed under UL489 for branch circuit protection. There are designed to meet IEC motor protection requirements. As such the contain an amount of phase loss protection as part of the overload mechanism. This phase loss 'sensitivity' causes the device to trip somewhat early if there is a current imbalance.

The jumper makes sure that all of the phases see an equal amount of current therefore preventing the phase loss early trip.
I think you are right. Listed to ul508 and not ul489.
 
These are not molded case breakers listed under UL489 for branch circuit protection. There are designed to meet IEC motor protection requirements. As such the contain an amount of phase loss protection as part of the overload mechanism. This phase loss 'sensitivity' causes the device to trip somewhat early if there is a current imbalance.

The jumper makes sure that all of the phases see an equal amount of current therefore preventing the phase loss early trip.

These are indeed molded case breakers. A quick look at page 1 of the spec sheet says it right at the top. this post is not about the 140M motor protection circuit breakers.

140UT tp.PNG
 
The picture shows a 140m
The paragraph below the photo explains that it was sent by rockwell, and was included as the only reference that was sent to support wiring in this way. My response to seeing it was more or less the same as yours. "It does not apply to the MCCB, so why is it being used as a reference?"
 
These are indeed molded case breakers. A quick look at page 1 of the spec sheet says it right at the top. this post is not about the 140M motor protection circuit breakers.
Are they UL489 listed? If they are the jumper would not be required.
 
1646938073280.pngI don't use them much because as best I can tell they are not suitable for 480 V unless it is a wye system, and mostly I do not have any way of knowing that.
 
Why would the manufacturer care if it's on a 480V delta or a 480/277V wye circuit? It doesn't connect with a neutral.
I don't think it is the manufacturer. I think it is UL.

All the Type E and F combination starters (aka MPCB) are listed that way as far as I can tell, so are these style of MCCBs.
 
View attachment 2559811I don't use them much because as best I can tell they are not suitable for 480 V unless it is a wye system, and mostly I do not have any way of knowing that.
A-B, like several other mfrs, take the IEC style Motor Protectors and submit them to UL for 489 listing, so that they can be used for branch circuit protection of things OTHER than motors. UL-489 does NOT REQUIRE the Phase Unbalance trip biasing, but neither does it PRECLUDE it. So when these devices are UL-489 listed, they still have the "differential trip bar*" that biases the thermal trip setting, meaning if you do NOT pass current through all 3 poles, the trip level will be LOWER than the setting, meaning you will get NUISANCE tripping, not lack of tripping.

* IEC Overloads have a separate spring loaded balancing bar on the trip mechanism that is held at abeyance by equal pressure from the three separate thermal elements acting on it equally. If you lose one phase, the pressure from that thermal element is lost and the balance bar causes the trip mechanism to be shifted to already be closer to tripping, so it takes LESS current on the other two remaining elements to cause a trip. By looping one phase back through, you are ensuring that all three of the thermal elements are exerting the same pressure.

Why would the manufacturer care if it's on a 480V delta or a 480/277V wye circuit? It doesn't connect with a neutral.
The Short Circuit Current Ratings (formerly "withstand" ratings) of most of these IEC style devices are based on them being designed for use on 400V nominal systems that are ALWAYS 4 wire Wye where the Line to ground is never more than 230V. So the asymmetrical fault capability of the mechanical design is based on the amount of energy that could flow to ground, and at 230V, it is less total energy than it would be at the full phase-to-phase voltage. When these devices were retested for 480V, the asymmetrical fault rating was done at 277V and it passed, so they were listed for 480Y277V only. But with 480V delta, the L-G would be 480V, so a lot more fault energy and they will not pass , they will likely explode catastrophically.
 
Why would the manufacturer care if it's on a 480V delta or a 480/277V wye circuit? It doesn't connect with a neutral.
It has to do with the Line to Ground voltage. As well as the fault issue, mentioned by jraef, you have could have an insulation and clearance issues. During most faults a 480V delta system will exceed 277V to ground.
 
A-B, like several other mfrs, take the IEC style Motor Protectors and submit them to UL for 489 listing, so that they can be used for branch circuit protection of things OTHER than motors. UL-489 does NOT REQUIRE the Phase Unbalance trip biasing, but neither does it PRECLUDE it. So when these devices are UL-489 listed, they still have the "differential trip bar*" that biases the thermal trip setting, meaning if you do NOT pass current through all 3 poles, the trip level will be LOWER than the setting, meaning you will get NUISANCE tripping, not lack of tripping.

* IEC Overloads have a separate spring loaded balancing bar on the trip mechanism that is held at abeyance by equal pressure from the three separate thermal elements acting on it equally. If you lose one phase, the pressure from that thermal element is lost and the balance bar causes the trip mechanism to be shifted to already be closer to tripping, so it takes LESS current on the other two remaining elements to cause a trip. By looping one phase back through, you are ensuring that all three of the thermal elements are exerting the same pressure.


The Short Circuit Current Ratings (formerly "withstand" ratings) of most of these IEC style devices are based on them being designed for use on 400V nominal systems that are ALWAYS 4 wire Wye where the Line to ground is never more than 230V. So the asymmetrical fault capability of the mechanical design is based on the amount of energy that could flow to ground, and at 230V, it is less total energy than it would be at the full phase-to-phase voltage. When these devices were retested for 480V, the asymmetrical fault rating was done at 277V and it passed, so they were listed for 480Y277V only. But with 480V delta, the L-G would be 480V, so a lot more fault energy and they will not pass , they will likely explode catastrophically.

Excellent post. This really helps me better understand what is going on. I have a slightly damaged 140M overload that I'm going to hang on to. If I can find a cast off 140U breaker at some point, I'd like to take the two apart and see how they differ. The spec sheet for the 140M indicates phase loss protection type as "Differential Release" whereas the 140U lists the type as "No", but I'd really like to see everything with my own eyes.
 
Excellent post. This really helps me better understand what is going on. I have a slightly damaged 140M overload that I'm going to hang on to. If I can find a cast off 140U breaker at some point, I'd like to take the two apart and see how they differ. The spec sheet for the 140M indicates phase loss protection type as "Differential Release" whereas the 140U lists the type as "No", but I'd really like to see everything with my own eyes.
The 140U was a brand-labeled Eaton (Westinghouse) C-Series breaker, so a standard NEMA style device, no differential trip bar.

The 140M is an IEC device so it does have that, even on the versions that were re-listed under UL-489 like the 140UT.
 
Eaton? I thought the 140M & 140U were both rebranded Sprecher Schuh parts. After a little googling, I see that there are some SS/Eaton branded parts out there, so there must have been some sort of relationship between the two that I wasn't aware of.

I was under the impression that the 140M & 140U were both IEC rather than NEMA devices, and I thought the same was true for the new 140MT & 140UT replacements as well.
 
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