Suggestion

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Re: Suggestion

Count me out also. I couldn't even pass this test without help:
1-How do you reverse rotation on a 3 phase motor - EASY QUESTION for an industrial.
2-what is the take up on a 1 in EMT 90 - DON'T KNOW without a book, I don't install conduit.
3-A 3.8 kw wall oven needs to be protected by
what size breaker. - 208V NETWORK or 240V?
4-What is the max.height of a main breaker - WHY IS A main brealer special?
5-How many countertop receptacles are required
on a penninsular in a residential kitchen - DON'T Know I don't do residential.
 
Re: Suggestion

I really like this site being for electrical professionals, but I think it's ones choice to do the work themselves. I'm not opposed to giving advice to someone's who is trying to do the work themselves, however only if they are in dier need of this advice I would send them to work with a professional. For example, if they've been ripped off and they feel like there's no where to turn. :)
 
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I think that reality is that most of the time questions from those in the industry are not of the "how-to" nature rather, they are of the "where in the code..." or "what code reference..."

Asking for opinions on code clarification or explanations of code articles is one thing. Asking for information so one can avoid reading the code is another. To me this is also rude as it is a violation of professional courtesy.

If I ask a mechanic how to fix my car and he tells me, I no longer need to hire him. Is that fair to the mechanic who has spent time and money getting educated and experienced?

It is important to discourage the DIYer but it is equally important to offer a solution. That solution doesn't necessarily have to be the answer he is looking for.

It's like I tell my children when they ask me a question, "Look it up." I'll help them learn how to do that but I rarely just give them the answer.

Bob
 
Re: Suggestion

Originally posted by charlie:
I am not sure I could pass a test either. :eek: - at least not without an "open-book" and a lot of time :D .

One of the things I genuinely appreciated under the Code Forum Moderators section was:

2. Confirms there is a lot I don't know
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Quite frankly, I'd be reluctant to do a residential design at the moment.
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been silent for a while but see the need to be rude! as the opening post suggest, this forum is by electricians for electricians and those in the related field! I read alot and sometimes post when I feel the need! A DIY in our forum is being rude, also! I do not feel the necessity to "take a test" just to be a part of this great forum...something created for me and my fellow tradesmen/tradeswomen! I see many of you...moderators, tradespeople, etc. posting on other sites.....(handymanwire.com,electrical contractor.net, etc.) these sites are remarkable and can supply a world of knowledge. All one need do is ask! If a DIY chooses to post on MIKEHOLT.com, it is apparent they have lied about their knowledge/experience in the electrical field! Electricians have been getting a bad rap for years! I am licensed by the state(nonrestricted), required to take 4 hours of continuous education a year...every year...to keep it! Did the time in apprentice training....Purchase a code book every three years to try and keep up with all the thousands of changes....trying to keep a civil tongue in my head while explaining to the AHJ why I believe him to be wrong on that red tag! Homeowners in my area can do their own wiring (complete job) why do they do it? I charge too much; I am trying to rip them off!; It looks easy!; I am trying to sell them something they do not need!; My automobile mechanic said he could help me wire the place at half the price you quoted! The list goes on and on!
"THE BOTTOM LINE" BE RUDE WHEN IT IS NECESSARY! LEAVE THIS SITE THE WAY IT IS!!!
 
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Don`tget me wrong the answers are pretty basic 208 or 240 it`s a single phase residential application.The cxalculations are what we want to see.If you call your self an electrician then you can do residentaial,commercial service also.I am sure I`ll get allot of flack but hey I say it as i see it .
 
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nothing wrong in a company asking for a short test before hiring.I have seen this several times.Some are not written test but just a few questions even on the phone.
As to these DIYers has anyone ever noticed that this is there first post and same day they joined ? It is not about being nasty ,rude or mean but is about leading a man into an area he should not do alone.Since this forum belongs to Mike let's let him call the rules.
 
Re: Suggestion

Originally posted by wildman: "THE BOTTOM LINE" BE RUDE WHEN IT IS NECESSARY!
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I am proud to say that I am an ?Officer and a Gentleman, by act of Congress,? and a ?Southern Gentleman? by birthright. I submit that it is NEVER necessary to be rude! Not to anyone, not in any circumstance. It is, however, acceptable to be firm and direct, and to decline to offer assistance. That is what I try to be, when I spot a submission from a DIY.
 
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The best way to treat DIY on this site is to just ignore any and all post by them, if you feel a post is by a DIYer, then just do not respond in any manner, period. Next, the moderators should block the post and email the person who posted it....If it was a mistake and the question turns out to be ok, but sounded DIY, then that can be fixed....What cant be fixed is all the post attacking this DIY...it does nothing to better this site, and it sure is difficult to fix if a mistake was made against someone from the trade! This has happened on this site a lot, and it happened just the other day. so in closing, leave the attacks on the DIY's to the moderators and just ignore the post if you feel its a DIYer. Bottom line, show some intelligence and not arrogance

thanks

[ August 05, 2004, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: cs409 ]
 
Re: Suggestion

how about this idea? have a test that is easy even to a helper, assuming they have at least a copy of NEC in hand.No tough questions just ones that a DIY can't answer even with a code book or would not care to try find.Anyone in this field without a code book is not really trying but just looking for free easy answers
 
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Let's go back to the first page of this thread.


Originally posted by ryan_618:
<snip> It's not broken, lets not fix it. :)
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Simple and to the point.

Roger

[ August 05, 2004, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
 
Re: Suggestion

Going to chime my $0.02 worth in, a test? Written and graded by who, covering what, residential, commercial, industrial, the entire NEC? Who is a DIY, the person working on their house, the GC bidding an electrical job and trying to determince what they need to do, an EE like me who wants to do some wiring and asks for guidance? I have seen post from all of the above. For me the bottom line is simple, I don't have to reply to a post.

I agree with Ryan and others, this is a time to leave well enough alone.

Tony
 
Re: Suggestion

just got a newsletter from Mike Holt...believe he is preparing for the barefoot waterskiing championship and may not be available for comment! Someone can call themself a gentleman or a real lady, but it means a lot more if someone else realizes you to be this and responds accordingly! I knew of the late President Reagen but never met him! It would have been more impressive if he had known me and spoke of me as being a gentleman! Leave the forum the way it is and be rude, if necessary! Mike Holt, good luck on your championship adventure and be rude (only if necessary)!
 
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As i see it Mike built this site that we as tradesmen/women ok lady sparks we recognize you :D
 
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A reminder, this is Mike Holts site and he and his moderators developed the policy on DIY'ers. Its wokring OK, I want to thank some of our frequent posters who don't hesistate to let the moderators know of an issue.
 
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