Suitable for use as...

[dbuckley]

Might it not be easier to have the breakers for each unit below the meter and run long final circuits? Also, you dont need to run multiple pipes, put all the circuits in one pipe, and as you work your way along the garages the pipe diameter will decrease...

 

[mdshunk]

Might it not be easier to have the breakers for each unit below the meter and run long final circuits?

Easier, yeah. Also more expensive. I have a feeling that if I'm not close to a certain number it won't happen. For the record, if I owned that building, I wouldn't do this job at any cost. It makes no business sense whatsoever considering what it probably costs him to run 10 keyless lampholders and 10 GFCI's very off and on for a year. The payback would probably be 20-25 years.

I will run a seperate pipe to each unit simply because I know what people who rent stuff will do to get power if they've been cut off.

 

[acrwc10]

Easier, yeah. Also more expensive. I have a feeling that if I'm not close to a certain number it won't happen. For the record, if I owned that building, I wouldn't do this job at any cost. It makes no business sense whatsoever considering what it probably costs him to run 10 keyless lampholders and 10 GFCI's very off and on for a year. The payback would probably be 20-25 years.

I will run a seperate pipe to each unit simply because I know what people who rent stuff will do to get power if they've been cut off.

If I were going to lay out that set up I'd use 10 meter mains ( like a Murray JA2100 ) instead of a meter pan then just run a MWBC #12 to each unit two pole 15 or 20 outside at the meter. Hell MC the MWBC to the unit.
If I owned the place I'd be putting in fluorescent lamps on motion switches, and timers on the receptacles and skip all the expense of separate meters. They don't have anyone camping in the units do they ?

 

[quogueelectric]

My question is who is going to pay for all of those meters? I would make sure poco will install them before proceeding If that was the plan. I would think poco would want to only meter the one large disconnect unless firerated barriers can be shown from engineers drawings that each is separate structure.

 

[charlie]

My question is who is going to pay for all of those meters? I would make sure poco will install them before proceeding If that was the plan. I would think poco would want to only meter the one large disconnect unless fire-rated barriers can be shown from engineers drawings that each is separate structure.

We love extra cash registers where we get to collect the minimum bill. If there is no tenant, we just don't install a cash register in the meter fitting. Firewalls are not a problem since you get a disconnecting device in each tenant space but you will need to get special permission from the AHJ to satisify 225.30(B). Also, the wire size is not a problem since you will be using the provisions of the outside feeder tap.

240.21(B)(5) Outside Taps of Unlimited Length. Where the conductors are located outdoors of a building or structure, except at the point of load termination, and comply with all of the following conditions:

(1) The conductors are protected from physical damage in an approved manner.
(2) The conductors terminate at a single circuit breaker or a single set of fuses that limit the load to the ampacity of the conductors. This single overcurrent device shall be permitted to supply any number of additional overcurrent devices on its load side.
(3) The overcurrent device for the conductors is an integral part of a disconnecting means or shall be located immediately adjacent thereto.

(4) The disconnecting means for the conductors is installed at a readily accessible location complying with one of the following:

a. Outside of a building or structure
b. Inside, nearest the point of entrance of the conductors
c. Where installed in accordance with 230.6, nearest the point of entrance of the conductors

​

 

[cowboyjwc]

I think you should be ok with the tap per 240.21(B)(5).

 

[mdshunk]

My question is who is going to pay for all of those meters? I would make sure poco will install them before proceeding If that was the plan. I would think poco would want to only meter the one large disconnect unless firerated barriers can be shown from engineers drawings that each is separate structure.

I'm not sure what the concern is about firewalls is all about. This is just one service. When you have multiple services to the same building, then you sometimes need to play games with calling the firewall making that one building into two buildings. In reality, this is only one service. It just happens to be metered 10 times. I already know that this won't be any problem whatsoever for the PoCo. This happnens to be in a municipal PoCo's territory anyhow. Municipal PoCo's tend to be very customer focused in my experience. They'll figure out a way to accomodate whatever a customer wants or needs.

I sure am glad to learn about this outside tap rule. I think this is the first time I've ever had to take advantage of that.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I sure am glad to learn about this outside tap rule. I think this is the first time I've ever had to take advantage of that.

Glad to help. I don't know that I've ever had one where anyone could use it either to tell you the truth.

 

[RUWired]

If that's the case, does each unit's panel need to be marked "suitable for use as service equipment?

MD, i would say you have an article 225.36 violation if you don't use service equipment.

Rick