Sum of breakers not to exeeded 300% ???

[Sierrasparky]

Hi all ,
Been gone for a while.
Anyone ever heard of a code requirement that the sum of all installed breakers are not to exeed the Main feeder or main Service by some percentage?

This was called by a inspector in a 3,000 sqft home with a 200 amp main no A/C cal load at less than 96 amps. single family dwelling.

 

[cpal]

Hi all ,
Been gone for a while.
Anyone ever heard of a code requirement that the sum of all installed breakers are not to exeed the Main feeder or main Service by some percentage?

This was called by a inspector in a 3,000 sqft home with a 200 amp main no A/C cal load at less than 96 amps. single family dwelling.

not that I can remember, but I think there is a standard that limits the size of a breaker that can be added to the panel( But I may have that wrong). I thought a 200A panel would not accept say a breaker larger than 125 or 150??

 

[Sierrasparky]

Yea thanks I know about the maximum branch breaker size that is usually listen on the cover of the panel.
This inspector was looking at something else.

 

[charlie b]

Anyone ever heard of a code requirement that the sum of all installed breakers are not to exeed the Main feeder or main Service by some percentage?

Nope. If an inspector is failing an installation on this basis, then ask him or her for a code reference. There won't be one.

 

[raider1]

I agree with Charlie, ask the inspector for a code reference.

Chris

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Where do towns find inspectors like this ? Make up things as they go. Call him down on this and every time he tries making up a code. Willing to bet after 3 or 4 times of you calling him down that he rethinks before opening mouth. And if that don't work call his boss. Trust me if he is doing this to you he does it others and if he gets calls every day his boss will look into maybe removing him from field.

 

[LarryFine]

Where do towns find inspectors like this?

Electricians who couldn't make it as electricians?

 

[brantmacga]

I thought a 200A panel would not accept say a breaker larger than 125 or 150??

Square D makes a 200A Homeline circuit breaker (4 spaces).

 

[RonPecinaJr]

Electricians who couldn't make it as electricians?

Maybe mechanically they can't do the work but they should at least know the NEC as well, if not better than, a real electrician. I had an inspector once tell that the kitchen island needed 2 receptacles because it was longer than 5 feet. Really? Where can I find that requirement?

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Some make great inspectors but far too many are guys with masters that simply are not good at buisness. Others simply look at it as an easy job when they get older. There is a major differance between being an inspector and a good electrician. An inspector will see many jobs that simply are not how they would have done it. There job is to tag it if it does not meet code not that they don't like it. This is the age of lawsuits for anything so they best be carefull what they tag. Wrongfully tag one and cost the EC a contract with a GC and they will make there million the easy way. No they are not protected from being sued. And then when they have no job lets see who will hire them.

 

[hurk27]

Electricians who couldn't make it as electricians?

H'mmmm sounds familiar, heavy equipment operators, are truck drivers who couldn't pass the CDL test:grin:

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

You guys are jumping all over this guy....hold on for at least 1 minute.
There may be a local law. Local laws are usually unknown or misunderstood by some. Find out if there is a local law.

Also, contractors who decide to challenge an inspector, need to know/understand the code/standards/local codes as well, not just blurt out..."that is not code".

For instance, what is the code section you can reference for the inspector in this case?
Is there a code section to reference?



















Try showing the inspector 230.90(A)exception3

 

[cschmid]

little hard on inspectors are we. Yet I have asked the same question before how many total amps can you snap into a panel before you have exceeded its limits. on a 200 amp panel you can in stall 36 20amp breaker, then add two sub panel of 100 amps and 20 spaces and all this on a 200amp service so you have a grand total of 1720 amps. where do you find the total allowable amps to be installed on a service.

 

[roger3829]

little hard on inspectors are we. Yet I have asked the same question before how many total amps can you snap into a panel before you have exceeded its limits. on a 200 amp panel you can in stall 36 20amp breaker, then add two sub panel of 100 amps and 20 spaces and all this on a 200amp service so you have a grand total of 1720 amps. where do you find the total allowable amps to be installed on a service.

The load being served has to be calculated. Just because you install ten 20a breakers, it doesn't mean your load is 200a. You could install a seperate 20a circuit to every receptacle in a house and end up with 75 20a breakers. what would be wrong with that?

If the calculated load or actual load is 100a on a 200a service, what difference would it make over how many circuit breakers it was divided over?

 

[Sierrasparky]

Hi all.
I am resurecting this thread because It finally dawned on me what the heck the inspector was complaing about. ( he gave up and let it fly)

He was citing a part of the code but did not know where he read it from .
what flagged his concern is this was a Grid Tie PV solar install.

The code provides a maximum percentage of back-feed to the bus based on the total possible feed to the buss.
In other words . If the Main service is 200 amps and the buss is rated at 200 amp then the max PV backfeed can be 20% more if connected Load side of the main in single family.
see 690.64

In non-resi its not to exeed the buss rating

 

[Sierrasparky]

Oh I forgot.
If you put the back-feed before the Main breaker then your PV supply can be greater and up to the rating of the Service. This method does not limit one to say 40 amps if you have a 200 amp service.

 

[augie47]

And then when they have no job lets see who will hire them.

thats how I got my inspecting job :grin: (just kidding)
I think the biggest "failing" of inspectors is tagging a job because they don't understand it or don't like the way it is done.
I agree, challenge this one. ask for a Code reference. You can do so politely (at first) "in the interst of furthering your knowledge"

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

thats how I got my inspecting job :grin: (just kidding)
I think the biggest "failing" of inspectors is tagging a job because they don't understand it or don't like the way it is done.
I agree, challenge this one. ask for a Code reference. You can do so politely (at first) "in the interst of furthering your knowledge"

Any inspector here likely cares about doing his job right or at min tries to. He is interested in backing up his tag with code. As an electrician all we can do is force them into coming up with code number. Many back off fast if you demand number and think twice after you demand it. Good inspectors have number on tag . That alone does not make them right. I have rep as being a fighter. Long as they have code to back it up i will back down. More than a few times i have let them look stupid ,not my fault.

 

[SAC]

Having seen this general type of question and response an innumerable number of times, it makes me wonder why there isn't some kind of standard form for a "red tag" that requires a reference to the code that is violated? Could/should the NEC require (and include) such a form? Though, of course, the AHJ could always choose to do otherwise...

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I could put every receptacle in a home on it's own circuit and still be compliant. The calculated load for the house is just that and not based on the number of breakers. Same is true for commercial work. Just because the recep. has it's own breaker does not mean the load is present.