Sump pump, gfci's and new panel questions

[bergz22]

Hello, this is my first post, I'm sure this has been discussed many times, I don't mean to bring it up again but I was confused in doing some research. I am in the process of remodeling a basement that was finished previously. Here in my town we are under the 2005 NEC. In one corner of the basement there is a hidden door leading to a small room that houses the foundation sump pump, downstairs ejector pump, and back up battery and charger. On the other side, in a finished laundry room there is another sump just used to pump out washing machine water and from a utility sink.

This is what reads in my towns amended electrical code:

15.10.040 BRANCH CIRCUITS REQUIRED:

A. In addition to those branch circuits

required by the above adopted electrical code,
separate additional branch circuits shall be provided in a dwelling occupancy as required

below: (slightly edited for size)


9. Sump pump.
10. Sanitary ejector pump.
11. Central vacuum system.

B. A single receptacle shall be required for all cord and plug appliances and equipment required to have a dedicated circuit.

So do this mean I can use a separate circuit for each the house sump, ejector pump, and washer pump, with each being on its own simplex receptacle? I know a gfi would be wise but is it necessary to go above the code requirements? I would then need to put in a water level alarm, if I went gfi, considering a lot of people complain about them tripping constantly.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

As I read it you need a separate circuit for each of the mentioned utilization equipment. GFCI's generally only trip when there is a problem with the equipment. If the area req. a gfci then you need to use it.

 

[iwire]

So do this mean I can use a separate circuit for each the house sump, ejector pump, and washer pump, with each being on its own simplex receptacle?

Can? Actually not a choice, it is required by the sections you posted.

I know a gfi would be wise but is it necessary to go above the code requirements? I would then need to put in a water level alarm, if I went gfi, considering a lot of people complain about them tripping constantly.

I don't see anything in those posted amendments addressing GFCIs one way or the other. That being the case GFCIs will need to be provided per NEC requirements.

I also agree with Dennis, if a single appliance is tripping the GFCI the appliance has a defect.

The water alarm is a great idea. :thumbsup:

 

[kwired]

Hello, this is my first post, I'm sure this has been discussed many times, I don't mean to bring it up again but I was confused in doing some research. I am in the process of remodeling a basement that was finished previously. Here in my town we are under the 2005 NEC. In one corner of the basement there is a hidden door leading to a small room that houses the foundation sump pump, downstairs ejector pump, and back up battery and charger. On the other side, in a finished laundry room there is another sump just used to pump out washing machine water and from a utility sink.

This is what reads in my towns amended electrical code:

15.10.040 BRANCH CIRCUITS REQUIRED:

A. In addition to those branch circuits

required by the above adopted electrical code,
separate additional branch circuits shall be provided in a dwelling occupancy as required

below: (slightly edited for size)


9. Sump pump.
10. Sanitary ejector pump.
11. Central vacuum system.

B. A single receptacle shall be required for all cord and plug appliances and equipment required to have a dedicated circuit.

So do this mean I can use a separate circuit for each the house sump, ejector pump, and washer pump, with each being on its own simplex receptacle? I know a gfi would be wise but is it necessary to go above the code requirements? I would then need to put in a water level alarm, if I went gfi, considering a lot of people complain about them tripping constantly.

I can't recall which year NEC eliminated the exceptions for GFCI for similar situations, but I'm thinking there were no longer an exception in 2005.

Unless you have other local amendments addressing the GFCI issue that you didn't post I don't see how this can not be left without GFCI protection. The local amendments you posted cover required branch circuits, if there are any GFCI requirement changes by local amendments are likely covered in a different area of your local amendments.

edit: Bob hit submit before I did.

 

[bergz22]

I didn't see anything in the 2005 NEC that requires GFI'S for sump pump outlets. Also nothing in the local code. The only requirement I saw was for outlets within six feet of a sink. The outlet serving the washing machine pump is/would be within six feet, so that would need to be gfci then. This is confusing to me as we're still on the 2005, and some info I find is for updated codes. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to just go gfi on all of it and be done, and just in case they update here. I haven't seen a simplex gfci outlet, does such a thing exist or do I use a gfci breaker? This is what I found.

Exception No. 2 in the 2005 NEC did not require GFCI protection for single receptacles for one appliance or for duplex receptacles for two appliances that were located in dedicated space and not easily moved in normal use. Freezers, refrigerators or other heavy appliances occupying dedicated space in a garage or unfinished basement were not required to have GFCI protection in 2005 under this exception. In 2008 these 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles must be GFCI protected.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

sump pumps are often in basements and unfinished areas thus it would need a gfci per 210.8

 

[iwire]

In one corner of the basement there is a hidden door leading to a small room that houses the foundation sump pump, downstairs ejector pump, and back up battery and charger.

That sounds like unfinished basement area so 210.8(A)(5). But you said you are under the 2005 NEC and under the 2005 NEC there are exceptions that may apply.

2005 NEC 210.8(A)(5) Unfinished basements ? for purposes of this section, unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and the like

Exception No. 1 to (5): Receptacles that are not readily
accessible.

Exception No. 2 to (5): A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle
for two appliances located within dedicated space for
each appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from
one place to another and that is cord-and-plug connected in
accordance with 400.7(A)(6), (A)(7), or (A)(8).

Exception No. 3 to (5): A receptacle supplying only a permanently
installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system shall not
be required to have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection.
Receptacles installed under the exceptions to 210.8(A)(5)
shall not be considered as meeting the requirements of
210.52(G).

On the other side, in a finished laundry room there is another sump just used to pump out washing machine water and from a utility sink.

That sounds like (A)(7) may apply.

2005 NEC 210.8(A)(7) Laundry, utility, and wet bar sinks ? where the receptacles
are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the outside
edge of the sink

 

[GoldDigger]

I agree that the local amendment seems to force you to use a GFCI breaker or dead front GFCI, since I have not seen a simplex GFCI receptacle either.