Sump pump relay strange behavior.

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Mustwin351

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I have two buildings each with sump pumps and controllers. Today I found the subfloors of both buildings filled with water and the pumps not working with controller set in auto. The controller has a position toggle switch of hand off auto. I simply toggled it to off, then to hand (relay 1 clicked in and pump worked, toggled it to off and back to auto, and relay 2 clicked in and began running on auto. Did the ice cube relay just get stuck in anopen position and simply the act of switching a nearby relay and the vibration unstick it? Anyone have experience like this. This happens on two different units one being a week old. ​
 
Mustwin351 said:
I have two buildings each with sump pumps and controllers. Today I found the subfloors of both buildings filled with water and the pumps not working with controller set in auto. The controller has a position toggle switch of hand off auto. I simply toggled it to off, then to hand (relay 1 clicked in and pump worked, toggled it to off and back to auto, and relay 2 clicked in and began running on auto. Did the ice cube relay just get stuck in anopen position and simply the act of switching a nearby relay and the vibration unstick it? Anyone have experience like this. This happens on two different units one being a week old. ​
Click to expand...
Seems odd that they would both fail in the same way at the same time.
What items make up the auto circuit?
 
Mustwin351 said:
I have two buildings each with sump pumps and controllers. Today I found the subfloors of both buildings filled with water and the pumps not working with controller set in auto. The controller has a position toggle switch of hand off auto. I simply toggled it to off, then to hand (relay 1 clicked in and pump worked, toggled it to off and back to auto, and relay 2 clicked in and began running on auto. Did the ice cube relay just get stuck in anopen position and simply the act of switching a nearby relay and the vibration unstick it? Anyone have experience like this. This happens on two different units one being a week old. ​
Click to expand...

Can you describe the installation in a little more detail? Do both buildings have identical setups? Why are there 2 relays?
 
It would have been helpful to take some voltage measurements in the control circuit when you discovered the problem - system set to auto and not running. At this point, we’re guessing.
 
Mustwin351 said:
I have two buildings each with sump pumps and controllers. Today I found the subfloors of both buildings filled with water and the pumps not working with controller set in auto. The controller has a position toggle switch of hand off auto. I simply toggled it to off, then to hand (relay 1 clicked in and pump worked, toggled it to off and back to auto, and relay 2 clicked in and began running on auto. Did the ice cube relay just get stuck in anopen position and simply the act of switching a nearby relay and the vibration unstick it? Anyone have experience like this. This happens on two different units one being a week old. ​
Click to expand...

Sounds like an alternating relay issue..

Anon1 said:
Can you describe the installation in a little more detail? Do both buildings have identical setups? Why are there 2 relays?
Click to expand...

I'm assuming he has two pumps which alternate. I know, I shouldn't assume :cool:
 
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Sorry for the lack of info but it was late and the pictures would not post. Both are single pump setups. It is a 3 float system with three relays. One relay simply operates the high water alarm. One relay operates on hand and the third operates when the switch is in auto. These ice cube relays then pull in a general purpose relay for the pump.

My pictures will still not upload bug here his a link to the wiring diagram.

https://www.grainger.com/ec/pdf/2PZG2_1.pdf


 
I might be blind but trying to view the drawing from my phone I only see 1 contactor. The schematic also doesn't look complete. What model do you have, the drawing lists 2PZG2?
 
That drawing really doesn't tell us anything. It's just showing how to connect the field wiring to a PC board. We need to see a schematic of the PC board.

-Hal
 
GMc said:
I might be blind but trying to view the drawing from my phone I only see 1 contactor. The schematic also doesn't look complete. What model do you have, the drawing lists 2PZG2?
Click to expand...


Yeah their diagram is terrible....I was hesistant for us to purchase it but it was a direct replacement for for the existing one. It does not show the ice cube relays in the diagram. If I could post pictures you would see them.

yes I have model 2PZG2
 
As Ptonsparky has already mentioned; it's very odd that they are both acting up at the same time. What does the 2 buildings have in common that would affect these 2 pump stations?
 
Mustwin351 said:
Sorry for the lack of info but it was late and the pictures would not post. Both are single pump setups. It is a 3 float system with three relays. One relay simply operates the high water alarm. One relay operates on hand and the third operates when the switch is in auto. These ice cube relays then pull in a general purpose relay for the pump.

My pictures will still not upload bug here his a link to the wiring diagram.

https://www.grainger.com/ec/pdf/2PZG2_1.pdf
Click to expand...

So you have two separate pumps in two separate buildings and two separate control panels, correct? I ask because in your OP you made it sound like the control panels were in the same spot.
 
Each building has its own pump and own controller. They don’t really have anything in common besides being similar setups.

only thing I can figure is that the ice cube relay for automatic is sticking and the vibration from switching on the hand relay freed it up? I don’t know if that is common for ice cubes but I would suspect not especially on a brand new controller. It seems odd that it would happen to both setups as well.
 
ActionDave said:
My best guess is it's the floats. There is a wrong float or a miss wired float.

It seems weird to have a three wire float system unless there is a wet well.
Click to expand...

Yes the pumps are down in pits. My first suspicion was the float but simply cycling from auto to off to hand and back to auto eliminates the float in my opinion because the position of the float has not changed.
 
181013-1663 EDT

Mustwin351:

For each of your float switch inputs what is the voltage across each set of terminals when the float switches are open?

With this information, then what are the voltages when the system fails? Obviously each of these voltages should go to zero when its float switch closes.

Along with this what is the AC supply voltage at failure.

This information may be sufficient to identify where the problem is.

.
 
The floats did not change but you recycled power to them. Sounds like one is holding.at the wrong time. Wrong connection of n/c vs n/o someplace. Did they ever work?

i can’t see the diagram at all on my iPad and I’m to sick to even work up the energy to fall down the stairs to find my laptop
 
gar said:
181013-1663 EDT

Mustwin351:

For each of your float switch inputs what is the voltage across each set of terminals when the float switches are open?

With this information, then what are the voltages when the system fails? Obviously each of these voltages should go to zero when its float switch closes.

Along with this what is the AC supply voltage at failure.

This information may be sufficient to identify where the problem is.

.
Click to expand...


It would be 120v across open terminals. What is when it fails I do not know as it simply started working after cycling power. If I find it happening again I will pull out my meter before cycling power.
 
ptonsparky said:
The floats did not change but you recycled power to them. Sounds like one is holding.at the wrong time. Wrong connection of n/c vs n/o someplace. Did they ever work?

i can’t see the diagram at all on my iPad and I’m to sick to even work up the energy to fall down the stairs to find my laptop
Click to expand...

Yes they worked fine before I encountered this.
 
Mustwin351 said:
Yes the pumps are down in pits. My first suspicion was the float but simply cycling from auto to off to hand and back to auto eliminates the float in my opinion because the position of the float has not changed.
Click to expand...

The position of the floats hasn't changed but the state of the logic circuit and the state of the relays has.
 
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