Sump pump relay strange behavior.

[gar]

181015-2404 EDT

Ran out of time on addition to post. See added comment at bottom.

Mustwin351:

I believe you paid no attention to what I wrote about troubleshooting.

It appears that terminals 6 and 7 are the start float, high level float, and you measured voltage to ground on all terminals except 7 (I have no idea what ground is --- however I assume it is your neutral or common wire, TB 1-3). What I suggested was that you short 6 and 7 and see if that caused the pump to run. If that short did not cause the motor to run, then the problem is in the controller. If the short caused motor run, then the problem is in the wiring to the float, and/or in the float.

A little more thought makes me think the problem is with the float or its wiring. In automatic the high level float should be supplied with power from your hot supply line. Since you read full voltage on terminal 6 this means power is going to the high limit float wiring, but since 7 reads 0 V it means the high limit float circuit is not closing when the float is supposed to be closed.




.

 

[Mustwin351]

181015-2404 EDT

Ran out of time on addition to post. See added comment at bottom.

Mustwin351:

I believe you paid no attention to what I wrote about troubleshooting.

It appears that terminals 6 and 7 are the start float, high level float, and you measured voltage to ground on all terminals except 7 (I have no idea what ground is --- however I assume it is your neutral or common wire, TB 1-3). What I suggested was that you short 6 and 7 and see if that caused the pump to run. If that short did not cause the motor to run, then the problem is in the controller. If the short caused motor run, then the problem is in the wiring to the float, and/or in the float.

A little more thought makes me think the problem is with the float or its wiring. In automatic the high level float should be supplied with power from your hot supply line. Since you read full voltage on terminal 6 this means power is going to the high limit float wiring, but since 7 reads 0 V it means the high limit float circuit is not closing when the float is supposed to be closed.




.

Gar, that all makes perfect since and I agree. I’m fairly certain shorting from 6 to 7 with Voltage already present on 6 would start the pump. What doesn’t make sense is how simply cycling to hand and back to auto somehow allows voltage to be present on terminal 7 of the start float.

i could also kill power and see if I have continuity from 6 to 7 and that would tell me if the float is correct and rule that out.

 

[ptonsparky]

Gar, that all makes perfect since and I agree. I’m fairly certain shorting from 6 to 7 with Voltage already present on 6 would start the pump. What doesn’t make sense is how simply cycling to hand and back to auto somehow allows voltage to be present on terminal 7 of the start float.

Check for a poor connection at 6 and 7. The screw may be tight but is the wire in the terminal? Tug on them. It wouldn’t be the first time that has happened.

 

[jap]

This is starting to sound more and more like a float problem.

Is the float on a cord that flips up and down as the water raises and lowers? or is the float built onto the shaft of the unit somehow?

I've had the floats on the cord that flipped up so slow that the roller mechanism in the float itself would stick in the end and not close the contact.

Raise it and lower it sharply by hand and it would work fine.

Boiled down to a cheaply made float.

JAP>

 

[gar]

181016-0933 EDT

Mustwin351:

Without going back and reading thru the posts I suspect that your playing around by going to manual, which would run the pump, caused enough turbulence around the high limit float that caused it to close. I am guessing that the high float switch is failing to close on a slowly rising water level even when the level gets way above the actuation of the high float.

.

 

[jap]

181016-0933 EDT

Mustwin351:

Without going back and reading thru the posts I suspect that your playing around by going to manual, which would run the pump, caused enough turbulence around the high limit float that caused it to close. I am guessing that the high float switch is failing to close on a slowly rising water level even when the level gets way above the actuation of the high float.

.

x2

JAP>

 

[Mustwin351]

Yes The float flips up and down from a cord.

Gar that explanation sounds very probable. Short of replacing the float which is not fun to get to I may put the high water alarm float in place of the start float. Nobody pays attention to the alarm anyways plus the alarm light has been burned out for years.

Thank you everyone for their help.

 

[ptonsparky]

This is starting to sound more and more like a float problem.

Is the float on a cord that flips up and down as the water raises and lowers? or is the float built onto the shaft of the unit somehow?

I've had the floats on the cord that flipped up so slow that the roller mechanism in the float itself would stick in the end and not close the contact.

Raise it and lower it sharply by hand and it would work fine.

Boiled down to a cheaply made float.

JAP>

181016-0933 EDT

Mustwin351:

Without going back and reading thru the posts I suspect that your playing around by going to manual, which would run the pump, caused enough turbulence around the high limit float that caused it to close. I am guessing that the high float switch is failing to close on a slowly rising water level even when the level gets way above the actuation of the high float.

.

I think you guys nailed it, but do either of you have drawing of that type of float? Picture of the internal workings?

 

[Barbqranch]

The float may simply need more wire between the float and the wire tie-down. If the wire doesn't allow the float to move fully.

 

[jap]

Yes The float flips up and down from a cord.

If it's any consolation, I ran into this very same situation about 30 years ago when I was in construction, with a pump the owner had put in the basement well.

It had the exact same issues with the float.

As I recall the float was a plastic cylinder roughly 2 or 3" in diameter and about 4 or 5" long and had a ball inside of it that rolled from one end to the other to open and close the contacts.

Who know's,,, may be the same setup 30 years later with no improvements in the design.


JAP>

 

[Mustwin351]

If it's any consolation, I ran into this very same situation about 30 years ago when I was in construction, with a pump the owner had put in the basement well.

It had the exact same issues with the float.

As I recall the float was a plastic cylinder roughly 2 or 3" in diameter and about 4 or 5" long and had a ball inside of it that rolled from one end to the other to open and close the contacts.

Who know's,,, may be the same setup 30 years later with no improvements in the design.


JAP>

That’s my float.