Sump pump

[Oldmaster2]

If sump pumps in the basement are connected to single receptacles is GFCI protection required? There happens to be 2 pumps.

 

[tom baker]

Yes under current code If the GFCI trips it’s most likely a bad sump pump

 

[tom baker]

What if you lose power? There are 12VDC battery sump pumps available,and water powered eductors

 

[goldstar]

This is one of those Code requirements that makes you scratch your head and wonder what the CMP's were thinking when they wrote it. Now granted, they can always fall back on "It's for the safety of personnel" position to justify their opinion. However, while they are sitting back on their lawn chairs somewhere and sipping a Corona, someone's basement is filling up with water because the GFCI tripped. The same Code rule or intention) applies to basement sewer ejector pumps (no need to go into description on what happens when that GFCI trips). And, of course, there's that one time when your wife comes home in a rain or snow storm and the garage door opener doesn't work BECAUSE THE GFCI TRIPPED, is one of my favorites. If that HO can't get an electrician to change out that receptacle (BECAUSE IT'S CODE REQUIREMENT) she'll get her husband to do it, and probably not properly or safely at that.

While I'm all in favor of safety, I think these types of Code requirements need to be further examined and new or better requirements explored and put in place. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[ptonsparky]

I'm thinking of clueless HOs wading through knee deep stuff to a failed pump but the GFCI has not tripped, because there isn't one...not a good thought.

As far as the significant and the GD not working...she knows where the walk in doors are and she won't melt because of a little rain.

 

[infinity]

Here in NJ GFCI protection is not required for a single receptacle serving a sump pump.

 

[goldstar]

I'm thinking of clueless HOs wading through knee deep stuff to a failed pump but the GFCI has not tripped, because there isn't one...not a good thought.

As far as the significant and the GD not working...she knows where the walk in doors are and she won't melt because of a little rain.

I understand that the CMP's are looking to protect as many people as possible from dangerous situations but, if that clueless HO is wading through knee deep water in his basement, knowing there is live electric there, the lack of GFCI protection for the sump pump maybe the least of his problems. Like John Wayne once said "Life is tough but it's even tougher when you're stupid."

Doesn't sound liker you married the same woman the rest of us did.

 

[goldstar]

Here in NJ GFCI protection is not required for a single receptacle serving a sump pump.

I was always under the impression that a single receptacle fpr a sump pump mounted high enough where it wasn't "readily accessible" wasn't required to be GFCI protected but I think that's changed. Maybe it's in the 2020 Code but I vaguely remember being told that in a CEU class.

 

[infinity]

I was always under the impression that a single receptacle fpr a sump pump mounted high enough where it wasn't "readily accessible" wasn't required to be GFCI protected but I think that's changed. Maybe it's in the 2020 Code but I vaguely remember being told that in a CEU class.

Almost every receptacle in an unfinished basement has required GFCI protection since the 2008 NEC. There is no accessibility rule attached to that requirement. NJ has kept the pre-2008 exceptions which permit a single receptacle for a sump pump in a location that would normally require GFCI protection.

It is rumored that NJ will adopt the 2020 NEC in September. At that time we'll get to see if this sump pump receptacle exception has been removed from the local amendments. I would love to see some data that stated how many people have been hurt by unplugging the sump pump and using that single receptacle for something else. My guess is that it's near zero.

 

[takelly]

From the Wayne Installation manual. "FOR ADDED SAFETY the receptacle must be protected with a ground fault circuit interrupter (GFCI)."

Read more: https://manuals.plus/wayne/submersible-sump-pump-system-manual#ixzz7aWaSirz2

My boss told me to always follow the code. and the instruction manual.

If you ever have to go on a witness stand and answer questions. you're going to have a lot easier time of it.

 

[kwired]

I understand that the CMP's are looking to protect as many people as possible from dangerous situations but, if that clueless HO is wading through knee deep water in his basement, knowing there is live electric there, the lack of GFCI protection for the sump pump maybe the least of his problems. Like John Wayne once said "Life is tough but it's even tougher when you're stupid."

Doesn't sound liker you married the same woman the rest of us did.

He never said she was fine with that, just that she knew where the door was and that she wouldn't melt in the rain.

 

[kwired]

I was always under the impression that a single receptacle fpr a sump pump mounted high enough where it wasn't "readily accessible" wasn't required to be GFCI protected but I think that's changed. Maybe it's in the 2020 Code but I vaguely remember being told that in a CEU class.

IIRC all receptacles in basements (at least in dwellings) require GFCI protection in 2020 NEC, they basically removed "unfinished" from the wording.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

This is one of those Code requirements that makes you scratch your head and wonder what the CMP's were thinking when they wrote it. ....

It is not often that the members of the CMPs write code rules.....in most case the rules originate with a Public Input and the panel members vote on the PI and issue a panel statement explaining their thoughts on the PI.

 

[tthh]

Another thing to think about, is not placing two pumps for the same thing on the same circuit. That's just a bad idea.

 

[infinity]

My boss told me to always follow the code. and the instruction manual

Yes you need to follow both but electricians don't install sump pumps they install the receptacle. Here is NJ if you install a single receptacle it would be code compliant. If someone plugs in a sump pump that requires GFCI protection according to the instructions that's not the electricians responsibility.

 

[goldstar]

I would love to see some data that stated how many people have been hurt by unplugging the sump pump and using that single receptacle for something else. My guess is that it's near zero.

That's the whole point IMHO. If it's only one or two people who weren't careful or didn't know what they were doing, why write a Code section to affect the entire industry ?

 

[goldstar]

It is not often that the members of the CMPs write code rules.....in most case the rules originate with a Public Input and the panel members vote on the PI and issue a panel statement explaining their thoughts on the PI.

OK. I can buy into that line of thinking. But, the members of the public are not the ones writing the Code section - it's the CMP's. So now, if one (public) person gets shocked while pulling out a sump pump cord, does that justify writing a Code section requiring ALL sump pumps to have GFCI protection ?

 

[infinity]

OK. I can buy into that line of thinking. But, the members of the public are not the ones writing the Code section - it's the CMP's. So now, if one (public) person gets shocked while pulling out a sump pump cord, does that justify writing a Code section requiring ALL sump pumps to have GFCI protection ?

This is similar to the GFCI protection requirement for AC units.

 

[mtnelect]

I played a plumber on a service call. The underground parking was flooded because the pump failed. After pumping it out, I discovered someone had replaced the pump before me and spliced it in the sump. So, I installed a new pump but this time I measured the distance from the sump pump to the electrical panel with a continuous new cable. It's still working great with the GFCI braker.

 

[tom baker]

I had a call out to a waste water lift station, the pumps were in a 20x20 conc pit, 2 or 3 25 hp 230 v. The pit had flooded and the motors/ pumps were still running underwater. The control panel were on top of the pit
Today our WW lift stations use dry pit submersible pumps