Sunday Repairs

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Lawyer: Where did you purchase this part?
You; I did not purchase it
Lawyer:How did you aquire this part?
You ;I removed it from an old meter.
Lawyer;this was a used part?
you ; Yes
Lawyer:Was the part defective?
you;It looked fine
lawyer;Did you preform any tests or hire anyone to preform any test to determine if this part was used part was not defective?
You :No
Lawyer :So this part could have been defective?
You ...........
 
Let Fear Get The Best Of You.

Let Fear Get The Best Of You.

Rewire said:
Lawyer: Where did you purchase this part?
You; I did not purchase it
Lawyer:How did you aquire this part?
You ;I removed it from an old meter.
Lawyer;this was a used part?
you ; Yes
Lawyer:Was the part defective?
you;It looked fine
lawyer;Did you preform any tests or hire anyone to preform any test to determine if this part was used part was not defective?
You :No
Lawyer :So this part could have been defective?
You ...........
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Exactly what kind of test could you perform on this part? As I said before this replacement part was the exact same part number, and a visual inspection of the item revealed no damage. Since I'm a qualified electrician and quite capable from experience too make these kind of judgments, how could my judgment or evaluation of the part be any less than that of anyone else? I don't care if the part is new or used for something like this, if it's good, then use it. This is a repair to get an existing installation back into service. No hack work involved. Some lawyer would have to first prove that my judgments were in error due to incompetence, and show a history of such.

I sure hope some of you guys are installing new temorary services on construction sites every time. :D I know that no one huals these around from site to site. :rolleyes:

But since legal discussions have come into play, then lets look at some of the various legal issues regarding this situation. Not just speculation, but actual laws. Who can provide some?
 
frizbeedog said:
Not just speculation, but actual laws. Who can provide some?
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How about ohms law does that apply?

Hey seems like when everyone else was doing the CYA dance you made some money. I still say your good with the install. I warrenty all my work for Three years, I would do that for your fix if it had been done by me.
 
frizbeedog said:
Exactly what kind of test could you perform on this part? As I said before this replacement part was the exact same part number, and a visual inspection of the item revealed no damage. Since I'm a qualified electrician and quite capable from experience too make these kind of judgments, how could my judgment or evaluation of the part be any less than that of anyone else? I don't care if the part is new or used for something like this, if it's good, then use it. This is a repair to get an existing installation back into service. No hack work involved. Some lawyer would have to first prove that my judgments were in error due to incompetence, and show a history of such.

I sure hope some of you guys are installing new temorary services on construction sites every time. :D I know that no one huals these around from site to site. :rolleyes:

But since legal discussions have come into play, then lets look at some of the various legal issues regarding this situation. Not just speculation, but actual laws. Who can provide some?
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friz...the truth is you are correct...the other truth is that it doesn't matter that you are correct...

if the house burns down and someone dies (unlikely, but run with it) the insurance company will use their deep pockets and army of attorneys (or blood sucking scum) to go after you...your legal fees and other costs associated with defending yourself could, in a very real sense, bankrupt you...

so while people can say, no worries..they also won't be on the hook with you if something were to happen.

my entire point is think about this stuff and protect yourself the best you can..good luck...
 
FWIW, when I was doing fire alarms in the late 70's, we would routinely remove old Faraday systems to install new gear. The removed parts were "cleaned & tested" (for basic function, they were mostly special relays) and put on the shelf for spares. We hit the spares pile maybe once a month to restore or expand service in some old building. Was this wrong? The local FDs didn't seem to think so. (I guess a functioning FA is better than a non-functioning one.)
 
emahler said:
friz...the truth is you are correct...the other truth is that it doesn't matter that you are correct...

if the house burns down and someone dies (unlikely, but run with it) the insurance company will use their deep pockets and army of attorneys (or blood sucking scum) to go after you...your legal fees and other costs associated with defending yourself could, in a very real sense, bankrupt you...

so while people can say, no worries..they also won't be on the hook with you if something were to happen.

my entire point is think about this stuff and protect yourself the best you can..good luck...
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Have you been watching law and order again?
 
emahler said:
if the house burns down and someone dies (unlikely, but run with it) the insurance company will use their deep pockets and army of attorneys (or blood sucking scum) to go after you...
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You can do everything just like you were supposed to and they will still come after you. You can even lose EVEN IF YOU DID NOTHING WRONG. A jury is a strange beast.
 
mivey said:
You can do everything just like you were supposed to and they will still come after you. You can even lose EVEN IF YOU DID NOTHING WRONG. A jury is a strange beast.
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Who says it needs to go to a jury to lose everything? You could be in the poorhouse before it even goes to trial.
 
480sparky said:
Who says it needs to go to a jury to lose everything? You could be in the poorhouse before it even goes to trial.
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That is why the pay-off is sometimes the chosen route instead of the trial.
 
mivey said:
You can do everything just like you were supposed to and they will still come after you. You can even lose EVEN IF YOU DID NOTHING WRONG. A jury is a strange beast.
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I got to thinking today (boy, did that hurt with the time change lag). Say the meter jaw did have a meltdown, Like before. What if it was the Power Co. meter that was the cause? Their product and mine have to work together for anything to happen.
 
frizbeedog said:
I got to thinking today (boy, did that hurt with the time change lag). Say the meter jaw did have a meltdown, Like before. What if it was the Power Co. meter that was the cause? Their product and mine have to work together for anything to happen.
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How would you prove which one failed? If you could prove which one failed, how could you show negligence? Equipment just fails, that is the nature of the beast. If you made a repair based on your expertise and called it good, someone would have to show you did not know what you were doing. Like you said earlier:
frizbeedog said:
Some lawyer would have to first prove that my judgments were in error due to incompetence, and show a history of such.
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I would guess repairs are common in our industry using new and used parts. I have done both and have not lost a minute of sleep over either. If I would not make a given repair for my family or loved ones, I would not make it for anybody else. A disclaimer stating that it is a temporary repair might be in order in some cases.
Living in fear of what might happen with attorneys and juries might not be the best route because you really could fear those knuckle-heads all the time in any situation.
 
you don't have to live in fear of it, you just can't live ignorant of the possibility...you have to be cognizant of it...
 
mivey said:
How would you prove which one failed? .....
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You don't. You just sue both the electrician and the POCO.

You also sue the wire manufacturer, as well as the tool manufacturers that the electrician used. You also sue the maker of his van, since he drove it to the job. You sue the maker of the equipment since it was installed. While you're at it, you drag UL into the fray as they had a label on the stuff.

You sue the utility lineman since he hooked it up. You sue the transformer maker since they made the equipment that supplied power to it. You sue the neighboring property owners as they were neglegent in their vigilance for keeping such poor workmanship away from your client.

You sue the contractor that paved the street, sidewalk or driveway where it was located, because without a dry, level surface, none of this work could have been done. You sue the inspector since he OK'd the job. You sue the pharmaceutical company that made the cold medicine the inpsector took the morning of that inspection so he could still inspect the job while he had a cold.


It's the American way!

lawyers.jpg
 
Criminal liability and civil liability do not require the same burden of proof.The reason I carry liability insurance is because I can be sued having done nothing wrong my policy will defend itself so I am not paying for a lawyer.I minimize my exposure by not using "used" parts the homeowner may be happy as a clam but it wont be him but his insurance carrier that will come after you.
 
Rewire said:
Criminal liability and civil liability do not require the same burden of proof.The reason I carry liability insurance is because I can be sued having done nothing wrong my policy will defend itself so I am not paying for a lawyer.I minimize my exposure by not using "used" parts the homeowner may be happy as a clam but it wont be him but his insurance carrier that will come after you.
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Legal costs are the main reason you buy liability insurance. You can easily be bankrupted by legal costs even if you win a law suit. Let the insurance companies do their thing.

I don't see there is anything wrong with keeping a few odd ball used but still servicible parts on hand. The liability is no more or less than if you installed a new part and it failed and damaged something.
 
petersonra said:
I don't see there is anything wrong with keeping a few odd ball used but still servicible parts on hand. The liability is no more or less than if you installed a new part and it failed and damaged something.
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Your exposure is greater with used parts,how do you aquire most of your used parts?Most used parts are aquired when they are replaced with new parts so the question is why were they replaced?If I replace a meter because a lug burned and I salvage the other lug put it in a base and it fails I have assumed 100% liability now if I purchase a new base and it fails the manufacturer now has assumed part of the liability as my liability is now limited to the installation.
 
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