Surprised to win bid

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Coppersmith

Coppersmith

Senior Member
Location
Tampa, FL, USA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
When I looked at this job I knew the owner was trying to save money. I figured I had no hope of winning this bid, but I just found out I did. I'm very surprised because I bid the job done correctly and the owner had every opportunity to get bids from less scrupulous EC's who could have ignored the extreme conditions and undercut me. Plus it's been two months since I submitted it. I didn't make a cheap bid and he had plenty of time to find someone cheaper.

The job is at a large commercial facility. I need to run six new circuits to new A/C machines in EMT. The machines range from 30 to 45 amps. Here's where it gets interesting: the closest unit is 170 feet away from the panel; the furthest is 330 feet. To keep voltage drop under 3% I had to upsize the wires. The #10-6 CU THHN became #6-1/0 AL XHHW. Upsizing the wires caused the pipes to be upsized. The pipe went from 3/4" to 2" in some places. Try running a 1.5" conduit with 1/0 wires into an A/C disconnect. Special arrangements had to be made. Needless to say, upsizing the pipe and wire upsized the bid a lot.

I told the owner this hoping to make him understand why I was so high. But owners tend to ignore such advice. I suspect another contractor would have ignored the VD problem, just run 3/4" pipe and small wire, and severely underbid me. Like I said, I'm surprised I won.
 
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Coppersmith said:
When I looked at this job I knew the owner was trying to save money. I figured I had no hope of winning this bid, but I just found out I did. I'm very surprised because I bid the job done correctly and the owner had every opportunity to get bids from less scrupulous EC's who could have ignored the extreme conditions and undercut me. Plus it's been two months since I submitted it. I didn't make a cheap bid and he had plenty of time to find someone cheaper.

The job is at a large commercial facility. I need to run six new circuits to new A/C machines in EMT. The machines range from 30 to 45 amps. Here's where it gets interesting: the closest unit is 170 feet away from the panel; the furthest is 330 feet. To keep voltage drop under 3% I had to upsize the wires. The #10-6 CU THHN became #6-1/0 AL XHHW. Upsizing the wires caused the pipes to be upsized. The pipe went from 3/4" to 2" in some places. Try running a 1.5" conduit with 1/0 wires into an A/C disconnect. Special arrangements had to be made. Needless to say, upsizing the pipe and wire upsized the bid a lot.

I told the owner this hoping to make him understand why I was so high. But owners tend to ignore such advice. I suspect another contractor would have ignored the VD problem, just run 3/4" pipe and small wire, and severely underbid me. Like I said, I'm surprised I won.
Click to expand...

it's been two months. he *did* find a cheaper bid.
now that the first choice has cratered, it's your turn.
 
Winning a bid under such circumstances always makes me wonder if I missed something or was too optimistic when estimating hours

But like I always say, I succeeded by being persistent and consistent, not by being smart:roll:
 
Coppersmith said:
The job is at a large commercial facility. I need to run six new circuits to new A/C machines in EMT. The machines range from 30 to 45 amps. Here's where it gets interesting: the closest unit is 170 feet away from the panel; the furthest is 330 feet.
Click to expand...
Have you considered a single run, if they're situated where a single run could work? I picture a large single feeder with a small sub-panel at each unit, dropping conductor size as you go from panel to panel.
 
So is the owner agreeing to your price, or are you looking for opportunities to offer a credit back? Are you able to provide more details on the circuits to be run (voltage, are the amperages you listed for the A/C units FLA/MOCP/etc.) and the type of facility?
 
LarryFine said:
Have you considered a single run, if they're situated where a single run could work? I picture a large single feeder with a small sub-panel at each unit, dropping conductor size as you go from panel to panel.
Click to expand...

This would have been easier if I could have situated a subpanel near the first unit and ran branch to each of the other three units, but for security purposes I can't. For units 1-4 the current plan to the run a 2" mainline from the panel and hit T conduit bodies to drop off conductors to each unit. The units are basically arranged in a really long L shape. I can drop the mainline down to 1.5" after unit 2. At the end of the line (just above unit 3 and 20 feet from unit 4) I'm hitting a box where I'm dropping the wire and pipe size to the normal non-upsized size. Units 5 and 6 are back-to-back and there is a second (330 foot) pipe run directly from the panel to these.
 
Coppersmith said:
When I looked at this job I knew the owner was trying to save money. I figured I had no hope of winning this bid, but I just found out I did. I'm very surprised because I bid the job done correctly and the owner had every opportunity to get bids from less scrupulous EC's who could have ignored the extreme conditions and undercut me. Plus it's been two months since I submitted it. I didn't make a cheap bid and he had plenty of time to find someone cheaper.

The job is at a large commercial facility. I need to run six new circuits to new A/C machines in EMT. The machines range from 30 to 45 amps. Here's where it gets interesting: the closest unit is 170 feet away from the panel; the furthest is 330 feet. To keep voltage drop under 3% I had to upsize the wires. The #10-6 CU THHN became #6-1/0 AL XHHW. Upsizing the wires caused the pipes to be upsized. The pipe went from 3/4" to 2" in some places. Try running a 1.5" conduit with 1/0 wires into an A/C disconnect. Special arrangements had to be made. Needless to say, upsizing the pipe and wire upsized the bid a lot.

I told the owner this hoping to make him understand why I was so high. But owners tend to ignore such advice. I suspect another contractor would have ignored the VD problem, just run 3/4" pipe and small wire, and severely underbid me. Like I said, I'm surprised I won.
Click to expand...

Congratulations. You did the right thing.
 
I can recall taking a 1200A feeder down to 800A, due to VD, on submitted and approved plans

the archy ,GC & building onwers had a fit

I almost had to take the very same state official that approved the plans by the neck to realize the archy was wrong

An amoral EC would have just done the install, collected his/her pay, and vanished

Which , from my viewpoint ,experience & observation , is ,as they say today.....'winning':rant:

~S~
 
Are the 30-45 amps minimum circuit ampacities or maximum OCPD? If so, maybe your competitiors sized the conductors based on the minimum ampacities. Just throwing it out there. :?
 
I had days that I was glad I was the SECOND lowest bidder!

The scary part is when the General calls up 10 minutes before the bid goes into a city project, and asks, can you bond!

The bond ask is the tell you have left too much money on the table.
 
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