SWER, Fabio Rosa, Rural Electrification, Solar, Low Speed Prime Movers,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Joethemechanic]

I just wanted to start a diolog, with a loose subject matter, to go wherever it may go.

There are many underdevoloped parts of the world where the people do not enjoy the ready access to electrical power that most of us here on this forum take for granted. I have always had a great interest in the REA of the 1930's here in the USA.

There are people in rural parts of the world who would think they had died and gone to heaven if they had so much as a 15 amp 120 volt electrical service. That's just 1.8 killowat. I believe a typical man working hard can produce about 2 KWH of labor in an 8 hours day. 1.8 KW over a 24 hour period is probably the work produced by 20 men in a day, so it is a huge amount of power to those who are now without electricity.

I'd like to talk about working with methods and materials available locally to these people.

Just some of the things I would like to mention, but not limit the conversation to are.

Single Wire Earth Return power line construction.

Low speed petroleum powered generators like the Lister CS designs.

Solar

Small hydro

Methods of storing energy locally where large transmission lines are not feasible, and loads are somewhat eccentric in nature. (synchronous caps, water pumped into reservoirs and then released for cogen,,,,,,)

And if the mods allow it, the social implications of this expanding power power producing and distribution system. Both positive and negative impacts.

 

[jumper]

Is there a specific question/view to this thread or is it going to bounce around and get closed?

 

[Joethemechanic]

No specific question

I guess it will get closed

 

[jumper]

No specific question

I guess it will get closed

Okay.

Too broad and liable to off topic and/or politics.

 

[Joethemechanic]

I don't even think the questions about electrifying underdeveloped parts of the world are well defined yet.

But I know the people would be much better off with Reddy Kilowatt pumping the water and refrigerating the food

 

[gar]

120110-2036 EST

Joethemechanc:

Peak power output of a human in a burst mode is towards 1 horsepower. This was a high school physics experiment performed by running up one flight of stairs.

Sustained output is more likely in the 0.1 to 0.25 HP range.

If seems if some good ideas could be generated here that some of the members that need more work could create one or more businesses to supply product in the area you describe.

For example scrap alternators could be obtained at low cost and combined with some form of prime mover.

.

 

[Joethemechanic]

For example scrap alternators could be obtained at low cost and combined with some form of prime mover.

.

I'm not sure how many people realize that scrap alternators have 3 phase stators are are usually in the 0.75 to 1 KW range as far as capacity goes.

A 10-SI Delcotron would make a good conversion

These Lister CS engines are also very tolerant of low quality diesel fuels

The same Lister designs are still being produced in India, China,,,,,, To us they are antiques. To them they are very viable power sources

 

[K8MHZ]

In the same category would be wood gasification.

The Mother Earth News used to be a great source of alternative energy info. I was going to post a link to their site, but it isn't working at the time.

OK, now it's working, but not much about energy there

http://www.motherearthnews.com/

 

[Joethemechanic]

I use to read the mother earth news a long time ago when it was in print. My grandmother had a subscription. There were some articles in it. Some went into fairly good technical depth.

 

[Besoeker]

Methods of storing energy locally where large transmission lines are not feasible, and loads are somewhat eccentric in nature. (synchronous caps, water pumped into reservoirs and then released for cogen,,,,,,)

Storage is an important issue and not just in rural areas.
If renewable energy is make significant inroads, storage is key in my opinion.
It also helps meet demand at peak loads.
There is a pumped storage scheme in Wales. Dinorwig. The rated output is about 1,700MW for five hours.
Of course, such schemes are practical only where the topography is suitable.

 

[Joethemechanic]

Storage is an important issue and not just in rural areas.
If renewable energy is make significant inroads, storage is key in my opinion.
It also helps meet demand at peak loads.
There is a pumped storage scheme in Wales. Dinorwig. The rated output is about 1,700MW for five hours.
Of course, such schemes are practical only where the topography is suitable.

Yes but they can be used small scale also. Small centrifugal pumps make excellent centripetal flow turbines when the flow is reversed. And squerril cage motors when overdriven the same amount as they slip under full load make good "induction generators" as long as they have reactive power supplied by the line (or a cap bank)

I can see as little as 1,000 gallons of water pumped to an increased elevation of 20 feet being useful in a small scale energy storage application.

 

[Besoeker]

I can see as little as 1,000 gallons of water pumped to an increased elevation of 20 feet being useful in a small scale energy storage application.

Let's look at the numbers. And remember that I like SI because that system neatly interfaces the units.
So 1,000 gallons US is a mass of 8,000 lb.
Or about 3,600kg mass.
That would exert a force due to gravity of about 35.6 kNm, g being 9.81 m/s²

And 20ft is about 6.1 metres.
So, with a Nm being a Joule, we get a potential energy of about 217,000 Joules
Or 217,000 Watt seconds.
Or 217 kW for a second.
Or 217/3600 kWh
About 0.06 kWh.

Ignoring losses.

Just perspective.

 

[Joethemechanic]

I ran my preliminary figure's in HP

I came up with 0.08 hp of output over an hour's time

 

[Joethemechanic]

I'd like to introduce someone I wish I knew. His name is Fabio Rosa and he has had some success in rural electrification in his home country of Brazil.

 

[Besoeker]

I ran my preliminary figure's in HP

I came up with 0.08 hp of output over an hour's time

Not a lot.

 

[Joethemechanic]

I was thinking it might be enough to get you over a localized peak loading condition. Like a motor start

 

[Joethemechanic]

[h=1]Thanks to Fabio Rosa a million Brazilians have access to electricity ? 15 September 2010[/h]

Fabio Rosa, le h?ros br?silien du d?veloppement durable. Copyright Ideaas
? I have been fighting for a brighter world for twenty years! ? Fabio Rosa, a man with a gleaming eye in his joyful forties, has made the electrification of the Brazilian countryside the cause of his life. This philanthropic gaucho from Porto Alegre is truly changing things. He has managed to set up sustainable solutions to supply energy to the poorest people for very little money, in some of Brazil?s remote regions. This is a crucial step for the survival of small farmers and for people to stop deserting the countryside.
? Two billion human beings ?including 25 million Brazilians- do not have access to electricity. Without this basic service, their living conditions are extremely precarious. It is difficult for small farmers to survive, explains the Brazilian. For example, it is not possible to pump water to irrigate one?s field, mechanise one?s small business, study after school, connect a computer or keep food fresh. But electricity is expensive. And yet, without water, crop yields will be low and uncertain. It is a vicious circle!?

​

IDEAAS
IDEAAS (Institute for Development of Natural Energy and Sustainability) is a non-profit making non governmental organisation in the renewable energy and social entrepreneurship field.
The association functions according to a sustainable model, mostly using renewable energy. This has a direct impact on the life of populations in rural or isolated regions.
IDEAAS also develops projects to increase electrical safety especially in hospitals and health centres.
http://www.ideaas.org.br/



Fabio Rosa was very young when he became aware of the need to slow down the huge rural exodus, ?synonymous with vulnerability, decline and dehumanisation.?. As he was convinced that this phenomenon was not inevitable, he sought a way to revolutionise Brazil?s electrification at any cost. When he was 22 and he had obtained his agricultural engineering degree, he was hired as a secretary by the mayor of a small village called Palmar?s do Sul, in the South of Brazil. This region specialises in rice cultivation. ?I quickly realised as I spoke to the small farmers, that they would be forced to migrate towards towns, sooner or later. These farmers often end up in shanty towns. I then looked for a way to change things.?
One day when he turned on the television, Fabio stumbled on the solution : ?An electricity professor was suggesting that three-phase electric power should be turned into single-phase electric power - a smaller system that is a lot less powerful but ten times cheaper which would be more than enough for the small farmers? activities- to lower connection and exploitation costs."
All of a sudden, a light bulb came on in my mind ! ? In the 1980s, it cost 7000 US$ to connect an isolated home to a three-phase electric system which was set up during the military dictatorship for industry in big cities. That represented eight years of a small farmer?s income! And it was a huge amount compared to a single-phase electric system which could be installed for 450$.
? Nobody took any interest in this believer in Science. And yet, his discovery was going to help us change the lives of a million Brazilians. I immediately decided to go and meet him. ?
A long saga full of obstacles then began for Fabio Rosa. ? For a very long time, I felt that I was taking one step forward, two steps back. I met the farmers and the mayors of numerous villages one at a time to convince them. But when single-phase electric power implantation became too visible and too widespread, politicians, often linked to the interests of institutions or electricity companies, started to put spanners in the works. I had to fight against the electricity monopoly and against certain political and economic interests. Each time I thought I was making progress, a change of political representative meant I had to start lobbying all over again!
For the first few years, regional institutions funded the Brazilian countryside electrification project put forward by Fabio Rosa. ?I was completely dependent on their indulgence, recalls the environmentalist. As soon as my action became annoying, I was cut off and forbidden to continue.?
In 1992, the Brazilian electrification pioneer then decided to free himself from all public subsidies by creating STA (Agroelectric System of Appropriate Technology), a company that sells electrical equipment and services. The profits will be used to fund the actions undertaken by his association, IDEEAS (Institute for Development of Natural Energy and Sustainability), which is still working to supply electricity to the poorest people today.
Little by little, Fabio obtained the backing of some goodwilled political decision-makers and managed to convert many regions to the 025 norm: the single-phase electric system. ?Things gradually became clearer over time. As the system?s viability and its positive impact on the small farmers of Palmares do Sul and surrounding towns had already been proven, it became less difficult to convince the people I was talking to.? Fabio Rosa even managed to make a newly-elected President Lula?s entourage aware of the situation. As a result, in 2003, a budget of 4 billion dollars was made available to supply single-phase electric power to 80% of Brazilians.
?I was exhilarated; I had finally reached my goal! But I gradually started becoming disillusioned when I realised that this declaration was a little populist. Because even if it was followed through to the end, it would not help the poorest small farmers who cannot pay for the connection, or the most isolated who are too far from big power lines to be connected. This represents 20 million people in Brazil !?
Fabio then started looking for solutions that could be applied to as many people as possible. He thought of solar energy which is available almost all year round in Brazil but the equipment was even more expensive than single-phase connections.
This is wherein Fabio Rosa?s genius lies: finding solutions to the most difficult problems. ?Let?s start from the principle that a poor family spends an average of 11$ a month on kerosene and candles. I told myself that the maximum amount should not exceed this fixed figure to avoid excessive debt, and provide a feasible and lasting solution to millions of families.?
His demonstration was simple and his argument was well polished. He explained it like you explain a mathematical problem to a class of first year students. ?It costs 400$ to buy a school kit from the manufacturer. This comes to a total of 700$ including installation costs. Small farmers will be able to buy it by paying 10$ a month for three years, and the installation costs. And for my idea to really be effective, I have developed a flawless after-sales service by supplying maintenance teams that don?t just come to your home to install the solar system and the electric circuit but also undertake the maintenance if the equipment breaks down. ?
Fabio Rosa?s solution to make electricity available to the most isolated people is close to leasing, a lease with purchase option similar to the microcredit developed by Muhammed Yunus, the famous Bangladeshi economist. Thanks to the support of Ashoka (www.ashoka.asso.fr/), an organisation which supports innovative business people in the solidarity, health, educational and environmental fields, its business model, called ?Luz agora? (Project Light) was validated by McKinsey, a leading international management consulting firm.
Today, thanks to Fabio Rosa, almost a million Brazilians have access to electricity. Moreover, the electrification of the countryside has increased the value of outlying land and farmers have significantly increased their yields. After thirty years of campaigning, this man who is changing things is now listened to and considered ?in light of his numerous prizes and other international distinctions ? as a modern day hero. The models developed and applied by IDEAAS are now used as a reference for national and international programs. His bright ideas have spread to Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay and South Africa.

 

[Besoeker]

I was thinking it might be enough to get you over a localized peak loading condition. Like a motor start

Might be a tad impractical.
Your 1,000 gallons of water is 20 ft up in the air.
You need to get it flowing through a turbine driving a generator connected to the supply and ready to kick in as the motor in question is started.
Not impossible. But practical?
You'd need storage, a pump/turbine and a motor/generator. All having to produce the goods in short order and for a short period and then sit idle until next demanded.
Just my thoughts.

 

[Joethemechanic]

But you would already have the pump turbine, asycroness AC motor / generator and the tank. This is assuming a hand dug well or other water source where the suction lift of the pump was in around 20 feet.

Practical, not for you or me. We are use to automatic motor starts. But to a guy who has never had refrigeration for the milk his cows produce, a few manual controls in order to get the compressor started are no big deal. And he can use the water from the turbine's exhaust for watering his livestock.

And hey I am not saying this is the solution. The solution may involve a gasoline or diesel generator for help during peak demand times. Or maybe something else.

I wish I could find a contact email for Mr Rosa. Maybe I could get him involved here.

Or maybe I should say He could get us involved there

 

[Besoeker]

I'd like to introduce someone I wish I knew. His name is Fabio Rosa and he has had some success in rural electrification in his home country of Brazil.

Interesting. He talks about renewable energy.
A fairly large proportion of the electricity generation in Brazil is renewable. At 1995 (last time I did the comparisons) it was 84% . From hydro. Itaipu dam I think.
Hydro has that singular merit that other renewable sources need and don't have.
Storage on a grand scale. All that water behind the dam.