swim-up bar

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gschuman

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I pose this for all of the other esteemed members of the forum:

I have a customer that is in the proceess of building a rather elaborate in-ground pool with a swim-up bar. The customer is adamant about having a refrigerator installed on the backwall of the bar- not the pool side. The local AHJ has said that they will not allow a receptacle, but would allow the cord of the unit to be run through a conduit sleeve (about 25') to plug into a receptacle next to the house. Problem is that the cord is way too short, and cutting it would void the listing of the unit. (As said by the AHJ). The bar area is about 8'x 5' and is equipped with a sump pump. The AHJ is also requiring a shutoff switch near the steps to the bar.
Funny thing- nobody seems to care about the wiring of the sump pump.

Is it posssible to make everybody happy here?

- Greg
 
Re: swim-up bar

You don't have a customer,what you have is nut.I walk away from doing very few jobs,but this one looks far to risky.Even with gfci this idea is scarry.Suggest an ice chest and provide a ice machine in some near safe location.There can not be any receptacles within 10 feet off this pool.Maybe someone can find a way to beat this in 680 but why risk your license over this.
 
Re: swim-up bar

I don't like this idea much either.

I have a hard time believing its somehow safer to leave the cord plugged in to the outlet rather than allowing it to be cutoff and hard wired.

maybe you could install an outlet inside a metal junction box and route the cord into the jbox and plug it in inside the box.

I am not all that worried about the sump pump since they are designed to be underwater but the fridge is a bit scary, although I'm not sure what they are planning to pump. It would seem a simple open channel back into the pool would allow any dripping water to be collected and dealt with, with out the need of a pump.

The ice chest idea sounds like the way to go.

It seems to me the designer of this thing is really the responsible party in figuring out how to do so in a code legal and safe way.
 
Re: swim-up bar

another possibility has occurred to me.

maybe you could make an insulated box and duct in cold air from a remote location.
 
Re: swim-up bar

He could use one of those propane fired refers like in Rv's.
You won't void the listing of the unit, just the cord length will not have been investigated by UL. You will be violating 400.8(1) in using the longer cord as substitute for the fixed wiring of the structure.
In reading 680-(A)(6), commentary in the '99 handbook, the refer recep does not violate the intent of the code. Recep's are required near the pool to avoid the use of extension cords. The 10' distance was chosen because appliances come with a 6' cord or shorter and that reduces the chances of knocking an appliance into the pool. If you don't put the recep in for the refer, then he will use an extension cord to plug it in. I think you're safer putting a twist-lock and GFCI protected recep behind the refer.
Another issue regarding listing issues, is the refer listed for use outdoors? I've never looked at the instructions for one.
 
Re: swim-up bar

How about this.Have your AC man remodel that frig a little.He could remove the motor from the small frig and place it some place thats safe,then with high pressure flexable lines re hook it up.Seems money is not an issue.I have come across a few nuts like this before.One wanted a crystal chandelier above her bath tub.Exsplaing the hazard did no good.Solution was simple,get someone else to install it.
I do see if everyone refuses that this guy might very well use an exstention cord.Not much you can do to save a guy like him.I think he has a drinking problem if getting out of the pool is a problem.
 
Re: swim-up bar

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Problem is that the cord is way too short, and cutting it would void the listing of the unit.
-------------------------------------------------

If the inspector is going to ok this, what about having someone make up a longer cord, disconnect it from the inside of the freezer and reconnect the new one to the terminals inside. Worse case senerio the old cord could be put back on if it needed warranty service.

The only problem I can see is possible nuisance triping on a GFI circuit.
 
Re: swim-up bar

this sounds like an accident waiting to happen,
you cannot run flexible cord thru conduit 400.8,
read 680.10, a swim up bar is not necessary to
supply pool equipment, and read 680.22. Is there
any metal on the bar that would require bonding?
this is one of those times you have to protect the homeowner from himself, I hope the inspector
failed this job.
 
Re: swim-up bar

Another thing you could is order the refer without a cord and hardwire it.

I wouldn't be so afraid of the refer next to the pool. After all you swim right next to a 120 volt pool light.
 
Re: swim-up bar

I wonder about people who, that because they have some money, think that the dangers of electricity don't apply to them.

Edit: I like the idea of pumping in the cold air though. They could brag about how it works to their guests too.

[ January 22, 2005, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: physis ]
 
Re: swim-up bar

Please tell me the danger here.
Are you afraid the refer is going to fall in the pool?
Are you afraid a person will have his hand on the refer and touch someone in the pool? there are many ways this can happen with to the letter Code installations.
 
Re: swim-up bar

I don't know if I could point to an immediate danger, Larry. But I can invision an individual in a pool or soaking wet being electrified by something gone wrong.

Edit: Usually I get it right the second time.

[ January 21, 2005, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: physis ]
 
Re: swim-up bar

Originally posted by jimwalker:
How about this.Have your AC man remodel that frig a little. He could remove the motor from the small frig and place it some place thats safe...
Click to expand...
this is what I was thinking too, they make kits for boats that allow you to convert your ice chest into a fridge. Comes with a 120/12v compressor to mount semi-remotely and a evaporator to put in the ice chest. (if the evaporator has a fan, which i don't think it does, use the 12v lead). This involves more money but would be safe.
 
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