switch an outlet

[stew]

is a common snap switch in a normal nail on box considered an "outlet"? or just a swithching device for an outlet?

 

[al hildenbrand]

Hi Stew,

This has been the object of the longest thread the forum has had to date. A pole done during the thread was 3:1 no. This links to the 53 pages of thread.

 

[ceknight]

Re: switch an outlet

is a common snap switch in a normal nail on box considered an "outlet"?

After I joined the forum, I spent a few evenings cruising the archives to get a feel for things that have been discussed here in the past. Having done so, I can now safely answer your question:

No. No. Yes. No. Yes, but. No. No. No. No. Um. No. (repeat)



Chris Knight
Syracuse NY

 

[al hildenbrand]

This is the Poll results ("pole") I mentioned in my post.

While, at first flush, it seems the question in the Poll is about AFCI protection, the core, one might say "real", question is whether there is an outlet at a switch used as a controller. . .or, what you asked in your openning post.

 

[allenwayne]

In the forementioned thread I brought up using a lighted switch and that threw it off on a tangent.I still contend once you throw the switch lighted or not that is a means of utilization same as placing a car in drive.In park it is energy waiting to be used,in drive it is being directed for a specific use in this case motion.I don`t think we can hash out scenarios anymore than were discussed in prior posts.But the subject was never resolved it was well just put aside in lieu of a definitive answer ,opinions not withstanding. :roll:

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Some things are never solved here.Best we just don't even talk about switches as outlets.By the way that second NO was mine

 

[iwire]

Yes, you can switch an outlet. :wink:

 

[stars13bars2]

I can even switch out a switch, but that still doesn't make it an outlet.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Home depot has lots of switches of all kinds and colors ,guess they could be called a switch outlet.

 

[George Stolz]

Jim: :lol:

 

[John Deere Man]

Definitions: Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utiliation equipment.

So no a switch is not an "OUTLET".

 

[jwelectric]

How many here would agree with the following statement;

Many other NEC sections and national standards are directly related to equipment.
Any equipment connected to the electrical system affects and therefore becomes
part of the system.


This statement was made by;
Phil Henning
Sales Engineer
MET Labs /CertifiGroup

If this is true where would the outlet be?

 

[iwire]

Definitions: Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utiliation equipment.

So no a switch is not an "OUTLET".

John I agree with you but there is a whole lot of history here that you probably missed.

Al H. has made a reasonable case that per actual definitions a switch is an outlet.

Still I am not willing to call a switch an outlet.

 

[charlie b]

How many here would agree with the following statement. . . .

Not I. A clock radio can be connected to a building's electrical system (by way of a flexible cord), and an air conditioner can be hard-wired to the building's electrical system. Neither would thereby become part of the building's electrical system.

If this is true where would the outlet be?

I don't see a relationship between that statement and the nature of an outlet.

 

[peter d]

This is a serious question, so don't please don't take it as sarcastic:

What is the real relevance of the "Is a switch and outlet" argument?

I have lost the meaning of this debate. :?

 

[charlie b]

Al H. has made a reasonable case that per actual definitions a switch is an outlet.

There were many others, myself included, who made reasonable cases that a switch is not an outlet. In a related poll taken at the time, 75% of the respondents (100 out of 133) agreed with this point of view.

Still I am not willing to call a switch an outlet.

Nor am I.

 

[iwire]

Charlie I voted no in the poll.

As far as all the arguments against it being an outlet they where like shooting fish in a barrel. It's easy to go with the flow.

I just believe that Al did a great job presenting his case even with the tide against him. 8)

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

One could make some boxes that contain a switch into an outlet.They also could make some junction boxes an outlet or even a panel.But to do that requires a change in circuitry.A normal snap switch does not utilize current it simply makes or breaks the circuit.Now if what we are concerned about is having a switch in a bedroom and questioning if it needs afci protection then we must first agree or disagree on if its an outlet.My vote is still no.I do however see where it could cause an arc that could cause a fire.Unless nec changes its wording it does not need protected because it does not meet the definition of an outlet.

 

[George Stolz]

This is a serious question, so don't please don't take it as sarcastic:

What is the real relevance of the "Is a switch and outlet" argument?

I have lost the meaning of this debate. :?

210.12.

Does the proverbial switch in a bedroom controlling the proverbial load outside the bedroom require AFCI protection. I believe that's what got the ball rolling.

 

[benaround]

This switch, is it for a lighting outlet in the bedroom,or a sw/recpt. in the bedroom, or is it on the bedroom circuit? If not your good!