Switch @ dishwasher

[gregorsc]

NEC 422.31B states that the diconnecting means for an appliance over 1/8 hp or 300va can be a circuit breaker capable of being locked in the open position. What type of lock are they talking about? I have allways seen a single pole switch at there.

 

[infinity]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

A permanently installed breaker lock is a mechanical device that attaches to the circuit breaker and has a hole in it for a lock. This would allow you to lock the breaker in the off position to work on the dishwasher and doing so would relieve you of the requirement to install a disconnecting means at the dishwasher.

[ July 08, 2005, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: infinity ]

 

[volt101]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

Here we go again.

It allows (permitted), not requires it. It can also be achieved by using the method in 422.34 as long as you have a unit switch, that is one that has a marked off, and no breaker lock needed.

The unit switch is the disconnect for the motor and within sight of.
The service disconnect is the disconnect for the unit switch!

1.) Marked "off" unit switch
2.) A service disconnect
Done! Keep it simple.

Jim

 

[pierre]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

A lot of the new electronic dishwashers are not being manufactured with a MARKED OFF switch. The switch may say START or POWER.

The devil is in the details.

 

[iwire]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

Originally posted by pierre:
A lot of the new electronic dishwashers are not being manufactured with a MARKED OFF switch. The switch may say START or POWER.

The devil is in the details.

That is a great point as many of these start buttons are simply part of the microprocessor control wiring and they do not open any ungrounded conductors.

 

[raider1]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

422.31(B) says "or capable of being locked in the open position." It doesn't say that the locking device has to be present. So if i had a breaker capable of accepting a locking device, wouldn't that work?

Chris

 

[benaround]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

Chris,

I don't know if your pulling my leg or not. If not,then I would say you said it best by "capable of being locked" is not the same as "capable of accepting a locking device" . There would be no reason to even print that,if it was the case!

frank

 

[volt102]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

Yes, that is a good point, on the high end dishwashers. I however have a "cheap" one, a home depot special. It does have a marked off like the ones I see a lot of in the many spec homes that I have to inspect.

Jim

 

[hurk27]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

Jim how many names are you regiestered under?
Volt101
Volt102???

But to get back to the question why not use the cord and plug method? We just install a duplex under the sink, switch half for disposal and plug in the dishwasher. Using a pig tail rated for the load of course.

 

[raider1]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

Frank,

I am new to the forum, so i probably didn't word my question very well. I have been having a discussion about this requirement, of a lockable breaker. The question came up, if you use a breaker lock that is a removable lock, to meet the disconnect requirement, then do you put the lock on the breaker? If so, some of the breaker locks i have seen would not allow the panel door to close. The question of dishwasher disconnects in the area i work has been a subject of much debate. I have always preferred to put a receptacle in the space next to the dishwasher, and cord and plug connect it.

Thanks for your comments.

Chris

 

[benaround]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

Chris,

The door won't close even when there is no padlock on it, If this is true then i'm thinking that it is the wrong part? I don't see how UL or other testing labs could give there blessing to that,what do you think??

frank

 

[physis]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

I'm wondering how often they're actully used if installed.

 

[benaround]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

Sam,

Compliance my man compliance,this is all about sleeping at night,not what you know the next guy ain't going do.Know what I mean!

frank

 

[raider1]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

Frank,

I agree, this is why we have been discussing this question. Is there a locking breaker for residential panels that fits and lets the panel close? I mostly work on commercial projects and am not up on all the residential products. The supply houses around here don't carry anything but removable lockout devices.

Chris

 

[infinity]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

Chris,

We've used both GE and SQ D breaker locks and yes they're designed so that you can close the door on the panel.

 

[raider1]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

Thanks, the GE lockouts that i have seen, and used, are to big to close the panel cover. I will inform my supply house that there are lockouts that work with the panel door. I still prefer to use a cord and plug to connect the dishwasher.

Thanks for all the comments.

Chris

 

[physis]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

I'm just wonder'n Frank. I'm all for safty and the disconnect.

But I can't help imagining all these lock outs never beeing used. I have never actually heard of anyone putting a lock on one.

 

[marinesgt0411]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

this has brought a question to my mind. Does the lock on the panel door meet the requirements for being able to be locked?

 

[physis]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

I was gonna say no because it says that the "circuit breaker" has to be able to locked in the open position. I think I'll still say no but you might be able to make an argument out of it.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

422.31(B) Appliances Rated Over 300 Volt-Amperes or 1/8 Horsepower. For permanently connected appliances rated over 300 volt-amperes or 1/8 hp, the branch-circuit switch or circuit breaker shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means where the switch or circuit breaker is within sight from the appliance or is capable of being locked in the open position.

The switch itself must be locked in the open position.

[ July 09, 2005, 01:18 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]